PDA

View Full Version : An idea that may actually help you build better parks with good fps


geardy
01-17-2005, 12:56 PM
I thought I would pass this on in this forum, mark0ne over at the General forum reports that he has gained good results with FPS by going against the tried and tested old RCT way of placing ride close together. He remarks that he has gained a very respectable frame rate by spreading out the rides to fill in the park. He says also this has improved the look and feel of the parks he creates. Worth a try.

This is the quote from him…Well - I have been taking peoples advice here about spacing out my park more. It does work and it looks nicer. I think part of the problem is we are still thinking and playing like RCT1. There the game ecnouraged you to place one ride after another right next to each other. It just doesn't work here anymore.

I use paths three tiles wide, this not only helps with spacing rides out more but also spaces peeps out more and gives you the opportunity of decorating your paths by putting small islands of scenery (a tree or statue or fountain) in the middle of them.

I am NOT one of these people that thinks other people are wrong for complaining about FPS and game performance. My PC is an average one and struggles. I have spent some time tweaking, updating drivers and patches but for most people all this only gives you a small increase in performance and deosn't help much in the sandpark mode with larger parks.

I was the worst culprit for building parks with rides close together in sandbox then complaining that my FPS went down to 5-15. Now after spacing them out more I have half filled my sandbox park and I am still getting around 29-40 FPS in the day and 20-30 at night. Even on coaster cam at night on a water ride (jet skis) with reflections on i get 14-20 FPS). My parks are looking more attractive, the peeps are better spread out and my FPS is healthy.

I have 5 coasters and about 10 flat rides plus 10-15 stalls. Not much but it PLAYS good and LOOKS even better. You don't need huge amounts of rides/attractions to create the impression of a large, busy, packed out park. At this rate I can see me FILLING a large sandbox park and retaining a decent frame rate.

aoshi
01-18-2005, 12:15 AM
spreading out the rides looks good and does help a decent amount with the FPS, nice find.

AlabamaCajun
01-18-2005, 12:45 AM
I've also notice that heavy multiple theme usage plays a big part in this. More themes = more overlay files are loaded. I've noticed FPS drop into the ones with parks that feature all the themes and heavy usage of the features from those themes.

Building large coasters does not seem to impact it much, I've got that woody at 10700 feet through a mountain with no slowdown noticed.

On occasion, Ive noticed that the micromanger grabs a bite and stalls the action for 1 to 2 secs, followed by the beep and things returning to normal. I usually notice this more when I have stalls loaded with options 15-20 a piece (burgers with all the trimings) and when 500 plus peeps are playing and riding within.

mildredalien
01-18-2005, 07:23 AM
at the risk of sounding like a total newbie - what's fps??

geardy
01-18-2005, 08:20 AM
Sorry mildredalien, it stands for “frames per seconds”. It show up in this game when you load a lot of thing in the game and you get that jumpy look and feel to the game some call it slow down. It seems to be the most elusive thing to fix for this particular game. It seems everyone is looking for a way to get around its limitation.

mildredalien
01-18-2005, 09:53 AM
OK thanks :) My main problem is that my graphics card doesn't deal well with the graphics at all, lol, and I get these huge weird lines and shapes all over my screen.... but my spanking new G-Force arrived in the post today, hooray!

Phantom523
01-19-2005, 03:05 AM
:eek:

Simbolism
01-19-2005, 04:02 AM
Well said, Phantom :up:

The Necroth
01-19-2005, 11:27 AM
About the same thing i tell those crybabies as well, but it seems some are just focussed on going on the old way, and rather keep b#ing around on forums, and whine how much the game sucks..

I have about the same type of 2.8 GhZ p4, 2GB ram, Ti5800 3D card, not top notch at all, and the lastest shooters like HF2, Doom3, Farcry i cannot even play it its full glory..

But still RTC3 runs resonbly well, dispite the massive amount of polys thrown on my screen, combined with hundreds of peeps that seems to have a mind of their own, and coasters riding, birds flying and all those little animations in the game, and still its playable with 12 to 15 FPS..

Sure like you i expierence too sometimes heavy slowdowns, specially in heavy tree filled area's and fully enclosed rides, but its bearable..

Also i have been playing with houses and enclosed rides, and choosing even the right objects for the right spot helps in improving FPS rate a bit..

My first parks with buildings, who where sometimes MASSIVE buildings i used alot more building blocks as my later creations..
Even started to use terrain elevation alot more to make multible level buildings, where peeps can walk..
IF i can, i make as little use of stairs as possible and use elevated terrain as "stairs"..

In a test i did where i made ALOT of stairs, and the same trick with evelvated terrain, FPS was with elevated terrain high as with raised roads and stairs..

So are there alot of little tricks that maybe alone doest do much of help, but all those little things in one whole does help to improve FPS rate a bit..

My first park i made in RTC3 was as filled as my current parks, only i used for that first park mayby 25% of the vanilla park ground. Now i build so separated, sometimes i dont even have enough at 128/128 tiles, and still only have a few rides at total.

I just cannot help myself, and MUST make mountains, rivers, ponds and lakes and place the rides in those spacers.
Parks look much more realistic, and have much better FPS rates..

Sidenote on Patch1.2

I hate it, i think going back to 1.1
Why, i make WAY to much money, hell, its goes even so fast, that i earn more and faster money, then i can build..
Sometimes i start to build a building with $400 and when the building is done, i have suddenly $5000 or so..

Many scenario's seems suddenly childish easy (Goldrush took me 30 mins to complete from start to Tycoon :o)
Vanilla park i even remade as custom scenario with MUCH higher goals to make it a little more pleasing to play with patch 1.2

If people ask even for more easier peeps the game becomes too boring to play :o
Only i want to keep the low friction/Stall update options, but rather go back to the old Peep AI..
This "new" AI is too simple, and makes money way too easy..

Dont get it, that even with Patch2 people still complain about having troubles to fill quelines, mine are overflowing even after 11 years ingame :S

cart7
01-19-2005, 03:03 PM
yes, gee, what was I thinking? Wanting a game I could play to it's fullest on equipment that doubles what the manufacturer suggests as recommended. :rolleyes: You're right, Atari's right, Frontier is right. I , the customer in this equation, am wrong.

How silly of me to miss the fine print on the box about how frustrating the game will be to play unless you've got a near cutting edge machine. I guess I should reconsider taking the game back out of the box and tolerating the shortcomings and realizing it's just my perception that the game doesn't work as it should. I'm sure after patch 15 or 16 comes out I'll probably have a new computer and then I won't have to worry about any of this.

I'll also bet it's due in large part that I was born in a different era. When someone sold something that didn't work, they were held to the fire until they fixed it right. This is a new generation of consumers now. It should be called the age unfulfilled expectations. :down: :mad:

The Necroth
01-19-2005, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by cart7

yes, gee, what was I thinking? Wanting a game I could play to it's fullest on equipment that doubles what the manufacturer suggests as recommended. :rolleyes: You're right, Atari's right, Frontier is right. I , the customer in this equation, am wrong.


It's not the first, and highly discutable in many manners when who is right. If the specs on the box works for a number on people, while other it aint, what makes it a lie..
It works for a part of people and a part not.

Dont tell me a P4 2.8 GhZ is top notch, hence my Girlfriend plays RTC3 on a P4 1.8 GhZ and even less ram and a slower 3D card, and the game aint that much slower as on mine..



How silly of me to miss the fine print on the box about how frustrating the game will be to play unless you've got a near cutting edge machine. I guess I should reconsider taking the game back out of the box and tolerating the shortcomings and realizing it's just my perception that the game doesn't work as it should. I'm sure after patch 15 or 16 comes out I'll probably have a new computer and then I won't have to worry about any of this.


As above, why does it run on all my older PC's without too much issues, sure FPS could be better, but it aint a shooter, and 12-15 on a 2.8GhZ and 10 to 12 on 1.8GhZ aint too unplayable for a Tycoon game.


I'll also bet it's due in large part that I was born in a different era. When someone sold something that didn't work, they were held to the fire until they fixed it right. This is a new generation of consumers now. It should be called the age unfulfilled expectations. :down: :mad: [/B]

Let me remind you of a era where i-net didnt excist and when you bought games, you NEVER recieved support, cuz it was there.
Or so far away to reach, it was totally impractical.
One step further, i played on computers in a era, where you had to buy a book with code, and type it in by hand before you could play the game, with NO support.

Nowerdays reaching support in a other continent aint too hard by email, but try bridging 8 timezones, in a other continent by phonelines that where operated by a :o OPERATOR
(sjeez US was really backwards then for such a advanced country) now that was HELL..

And you complain now of free patches, freely installed by updaters, by developers that have forums where they can read the opnions of the customers


This is a new generation of consumers now. It should be called the age unfulfilled expectations. :down: :mad:


I sooner would say the new generation of customers have unrealistic demands, and want everything now, without any consideration if their demands are resonable..

RCT3Fanatic
01-19-2005, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by cart7
yes, gee, what was I thinking? Wanting a game I could play to it's fullest on equipment that doubles what the manufacturer suggests as recommended. :rolleyes: You're right, Atari's right, Frontier is right. I , the customer in this equation, am wrong.

How silly of me to miss the fine print on the box about how frustrating the game will be to play unless you've got a near cutting edge machine. I guess I should reconsider taking the game back out of the box and tolerating the shortcomings and realizing it's just my perception that the game doesn't work as it should. I'm sure after patch 15 or 16 comes out I'll probably have a new computer and then I won't have to worry about any of this.

I'll also bet it's due in large part that I was born in a different era. When someone sold something that didn't work, they were held to the fire until they fixed it right. This is a new generation of consumers now. It should be called the age unfulfilled expectations. :down: :mad:
dude, RCT3 is a good game. I don't meet the minimum sys.requirements, and I can play the game fine. I get good fps after patch#2 and overall, RCT3 is a great game. get over it. atari and frontier are not to blame. they are they ones that gave us this game. would you rather have a buggy RCT3 or NO RCT3 at all. I think that alot of the people on this board do not apreciate that atari and frontier WORKED HARD to bring us this game. buggy or not. I think you should appreciate them more. well, thats what I think. thanx for reading.
Josh.

damnationltd
01-24-2005, 12:39 PM
is anybody here old enough to remember VT100s?

...[dramatic pause, let that soak in]...

Frontier's trying to push the envelope. unless you've debugged an application of over 10,000 lines of code (and I shudder to think how many lines of code are in RCT3), i don't think you quite understand the feat involved.

perfect? no. are they still trying? YES!

if you're that miffed about how buggy the game is, go buy a PS2 or Gamecube and you'll generally be much happier... but realize that even at lower, crappier graphics settings, you're still usually seeing more detail on your computer than your console can handle...

derekmcd
01-24-2005, 05:13 PM
Even in RCT1 and 2 I built all may parks with some distance between rides. Mainly becasue I was able to LAG that game on my old TNT2.

Now I have a ATI Radeon 9550 128MB I'm getting 30- 50 FPS most of the time and when building coasters (in pause) I'm getting 98 - 100 FPS while moving around the map quite fast.

Something I use to do in the classic RCT that I don't do now is build rollercoasters over existing rides (mainly thrill rides). Did it once and I could have gone made coffee come back and it may bave moved 10 frames. I'm really good at making games lag in graphics. I have even mangaged to my NFS:U2 Lag on my PS2 (and consoles are not suppose to do that).

I'm running an XP Pro system with an Intel P4 2.4Ghz, 256MB DDR400 RAM, with a tiny 30GB HDD. (I don't make many movies, I'm using a great deal of the HDD as is, I think I have about 8GB free).

It depends on how much rendering the game must do, Sometimes I can do a scenario with only 1 or 2 RCs. Turning off some of the settings for graphics in RCT3 can help and I find it doesn't really loose too much. I took the clouds away because i don't look up anyway.

Only problems I have with RCT3 now are gameplay related, GUI and Game Graphics would only be better if I get better graphic card performance, but I'm happy with what I have.

Spikehead777
01-24-2005, 06:34 PM
I didn't know computers had knees! :p

Anyways, I like the game alot, even the lag won't stop me! Well, until the huge amount of processing fries up my processors. I don't really care for the lag, if I can play, then my computer is good enough! But, maybe have a seperate mode like that uses 2D images only, but a seperate function/mode allows you to play the game in 3D and being able to ride the rides. That might stop a lot of complaining, but start a lot of complaining.

AlabamaCajun
01-25-2005, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by damnationltd
is anybody here old enough to remember VT100s?

...[dramatic pause, let that soak in]...

Frontier's trying to push the envelope. unless you've debugged an application of over 10,000 lines of code (and I shudder to think how many lines of code are in RCT3), i don't think you quite understand the feat involved.

perfect? no. are they still trying? YES!

if you're that miffed about how buggy the game is, go buy a PS2 or Gamecube and you'll generally be much happier... but realize that even at lower, crappier graphics settings, you're still usually seeing more detail on your computer than your console can handle...

SHHHH! damnationltd, you're telling our age.

About the lines of code, looking at the loading on a P4-2.6 it doesn't appear to be Frontiers codeing practices as much as just the sheer volumn of polygons and texture they have tried pushing onto the scene at one time. This problem has been around all along, which is why fog was used in the early days to limit the visible range of the play field to preserve frame rates. It's kind of like pseudo vt100s on a PDP11 where you would eventually choke both A and B processors with traffic. I aggree Frontier did a pretty good job. With about 80 hours of time extimated with only 3 dorps to the desktop the coding looks to be fairly tight.