PDA

View Full Version : Scenery Editor update


Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

jonwil
04-01-2005, 06:42 PM
Since most of the "core" bugs seem to be gone, I am releasing the custom scenery editor now.
No documentation. Source code is included, use under the terms of the GNU GPL.
And lots of stuff is still unknown.
But, here it is, play with it.
Report all bugs to me.
And report anything you find out about all the unknown stuff.
Get it here:
http://users.tpgi.com.au/adsloptd/rct3imp5.zip

tikitiki
04-01-2005, 06:45 PM
Thanks JonWil!!!!

Twister2489
04-01-2005, 06:54 PM
Thank you jonwil.

Your very hard efforts have definately paid off, and I greatly appreciate this. I'm gonna teach myself how to use this and eventually make some great scenery.

Once again, thanks!

Groovdafied
04-01-2005, 06:56 PM
So I just model something out of 3D Studio Max or Maya and I can put it into RCT3? I should try to find that Indiana Jones entrance that I've made! SOO COOL!

tikitiki
04-01-2005, 06:57 PM
Noticed that you cannot create a new scenery theme. Always comes up with error, "Unable to install because of missing data."
I maybe doing something wrong but I believe we should be able to do this first then compile data onto the theme.

A suggestion, I believe, is to add a "add" button for adding new scenery themes. Would be a bit more convienient if it is not to hard to impliment. Also I cannot find the source code :(

Cheers Tikitiki

LightWarriorK
04-01-2005, 06:58 PM
Can models in Gmax work in this importer? It's the only program I know marginally well. Thanks.

tikitiki
04-01-2005, 06:59 PM
You would have to save it or expert it as an ase first...I found another bug. Will type it up in a minute.

Cheers Tikitiki

tikitiki
04-01-2005, 07:02 PM
When your in the scenery editor and you click delete without anything in there it will ask you if you want to confirm it and if ypu say yes, then it pops up with an error and craetes an error log and closes. May also apply when you have selected nothing and there are things in there.

edit: the problem applies to the texture manager, icon manager and text manager too.

Cheers Tikitiki

tikitiki
04-01-2005, 07:07 PM
haha! I'll never stop!! When you zip it you should put all the contents into a folder then zip it, so we don't have a bunch of files all over the desktop to deal with :)

Cheers Tikitiki

2005
04-01-2005, 07:54 PM
will test it tomorrow, although had problems with anim8or converting to .3ds

anyone got screens of objects in game yet? (post!!!)

tikitiki
04-01-2005, 07:59 PM
I will do it the second I get home!! btw its not .3ds its .ase!!

Cheers Tikitiki

Twister2489
04-01-2005, 08:53 PM
Alright, I'm trying to learn how to use this.

So I may be asking quite a few questions, but hey, thats the best way to go for me ATM.

I've played around with things, of course nothing has worked for me.. but thats because I'm not sure what I'm doing. I've looked in the other topic and I got a free trial version of Milkshape. Will that program work with this?

I'm figuring how to sculpt things in there, but I how do I get the files from milkshape onto the scenery editor, while saving properly?

I've tried to save but It says It can't mesh the objects together...

Hmmm... I've got a lot of questions, and I'm very interested in this.
Perhaps I can contact someone through AIM or MSN Messenger?

tikitiki
04-01-2005, 09:05 PM
Twister your best bet is to get an animation book, that explains all this stuff. It really is way to complicated to explain over an aim or msn messanger.

Cheers Tikitiki

Pal_Pal
04-01-2005, 09:40 PM
It will be very helpfull to include a sample ASE and a sample theme file with the scenery editor.

jonwil
04-01-2005, 10:01 PM
Firstly, the "unable to install because of missing data" means you dont have at least one new scenery piece. Or that you dont have a selection for the scenery type (adventure, sci-fi etc) Or that you dont have a name for the theme in the list.

You make the theme then you install it.
The delete bug shouldnt be too hard to fix, looks like its just an issue with not making sure that you have selected something before you delete.

As for source code, it is there, open rct3imp.sln

2005
04-02-2005, 06:05 AM
Originally posted by tikitiki
I will do it the second I get home!! btw its not .3ds its .ase!!

Cheers Tikitiki


ani8or only exports .3ds then you need to ue bi-turn to convert it but i think the problem is with the .3ds export.

I haven't really tried it yet...........maybe later.



edit: just got the program looks complex

how do you create a new theme?

Klinn
04-02-2005, 09:21 AM
Thanks for the release, JonWil! :up: :up: :up: I'll download it right away and check it out.

tikitiki
04-02-2005, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by jonwil
Firstly, the "unable to install because of missing data" means you dont have at least one new scenery piece. Or that you dont have a selection for the scenery type (adventure, sci-fi etc) Or that you dont have a name for the theme in the list.

You make the theme then you install it.
The delete bug shouldnt be too hard to fix, looks like its just an issue with not making sure that you have selected something before you delete.

As for source code, it is there, open rct3imp.sln

Thanks, but is it possible to create the theme first then compile scenery onto it, just like the already exsisting 4 scenery themes are?

Cheers Tikitiki

RCT4me
04-02-2005, 10:59 AM
Can someone link to what you need to convert the 3ds? Without it, this is pretty much useless for me.

RCTXTreme
04-02-2005, 11:35 AM
Biturn (http://mirex.mypage.sk/index.php?selected=1) can convert 3DS to ASE, but you might need a plugin. (found on the same page)

2005
04-02-2005, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by tikitiki
Thanks, but is it possible to create the theme first then compile scenery onto it, just like the already exsisting 4 scenery themes are?

Cheers Tikitiki


i wanted to know this too........sounds simpler. jonwil any instructions on how to use the themes?


when trying to convert objects i still get "multiple objects, can't convert mesh" error.



EDIT: something is up with saving the files............i tired someone elses .3ds model (with permission, from a website, allowed to use for non-profit) and still get the same error.


What should you put in the save box?

If you put object1 will the program make two files?

live_the_thrill
04-02-2005, 12:26 PM
Thanks jonwil!!! It sounds great, but I cant work it!!

Can you make any piece of scenery you want??
Can you import pictures from real parks, and use them in the editor?
Could you possible make a demo, so I can see how it works?

I clicked New Scenery, and I dont know what to do! I thought you could just go straight in and start drawing, please jonwil I need help, as I really need custom scenery!

Also, when I save the New Named Scenery, it says it has to close due to an unknown problem.

WalkingSnake
04-02-2005, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by 2005
i wanted to know this too........sounds simpler. jonwil any instructions on how to use the themes?


when trying to convert objects i still get "multiple objects, can't convert mesh" error.



EDIT: something is up with saving the files............i tired someone elses .3ds model (with permission, from a website, allowed to use for non-profit) and still get the same error.


What should you put in the save box?

If you put object1 will the program make two files?

You can only have ONE OBJECT in the 3DS file.

2005
04-02-2005, 12:37 PM
yeah far as i know theres only one object.

how do i check? i know nothing about the format.

I think ani8or only lets you export one object at a time anyway.......but the help files don't actually say much about .3ds export.

2005
04-02-2005, 12:39 PM
http://img31.exs.cx/img31/6857/rctedit17oi.jpg

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/3555/rctedit25sm.jpg

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/3519/rctedit39on.jpg

WalkingSnake
04-02-2005, 01:06 PM
First of all, you only need to use the [screenshot] tag for pics over 800x600. Second, try contacting JonWil with problems. He only seems to post here with updates.

tikitiki
04-02-2005, 01:10 PM
Your problems is that you have more than one object. You need to either make it all as one then texture it, or go into your editor and texture it then upload it as an ase without the texture.

Cheers Tikitiki

tikitiki
04-02-2005, 01:44 PM
Also when creating a new ase, if you do not choose the correct file type it will close out. I think when you press okey it should confirm the file types and then continue, else it will present you with a pop-up asking you to select the proper file type.

Cheers Tikitiki

2005
04-02-2005, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by tikitiki
Your problems is that you have more than one object. You need to either make it all as one then texture it, or go into your editor and texture it then upload it as an ase without the texture.

Cheers Tikitiki


I am making it all as one, and not texturing it (just the basic .ase).

I am the only person using anim8or here?

HulkLocalNews
04-02-2005, 02:25 PM
So, what all do I need to start using this? What 3d modeling programs are recomended? Anything free?

2005
04-02-2005, 02:38 PM
yeah anim8or but as you can see i'm having loads of problems getting it to work.

try www.anim8or.com and go through the tutorials...........


as i figure this out i'll write something here, but i'm not sure myself how it works yet.


walkingsnake look at this..........i don't think its just me.....

http://img141.exs.cx/img141/4383/edit12cz.jpg



Thats from bi-turn. look at the number of objects.



tried a different converter (not bi-turn) got exactly the same error (converting .3ds to .ase). That kinda implies theres something wrong with the an8 conversion, but both programs say in properties " 1 object" .

WalkingSnake
04-02-2005, 02:49 PM
Don't expect me to know how to fix it. I've never used anim8or. I've never even heard of it.

2005
04-02-2005, 02:53 PM
well it exports to .3ds

what (or where) do you think the problem is?

what program do you use and does it convert to .ase directly?

WalkingSnake
04-02-2005, 02:58 PM
I use 3DStudioMax. Keep in mind that I had no hand in making the program and have no idea what the problem is nor how to fix it..

2005
04-02-2005, 02:59 PM
yeah of course just thought you might know more about this.

A lot of people don't have 3d max so anim8or is very usful (or various other programs).But i'd guess they will have exactly the same problem.

RCT4me
04-02-2005, 03:36 PM
I think the # of objects might have to do with the # of meshes you use. Just select them all and use the "join solids" in object editing mode under the build menu. However, it might screw up the texture mapping, it's happened before.

Anyways, can someone link to the converter, I can't find it on google. (I googled "bi-turn")

BTW, I use anim8or as well.

2005
04-02-2005, 03:40 PM
i tried join solids already it dosn't work. give it a try now. A simple object should only take you a few seconds.

Good that someone else uses this.

this program works like bi-turn its pretty good

http://web.axelero.hu/karpo/

You can get bi-turn here if you prefer. To me they are identical but i use biturn mostly.........

http://mirex.mypage.sk/FILES/bi086a2.rar


you need winRAR to extract the files.


there are loads of combinations of stuff to try..........obviously this works but i'm not making the object right?


for this betaprogram i think you can ignore textures cause they don't work anyway. so don't worry.

if you don't join solids you get an error in biturn (but it still converts) but still get the "too many meshes" error in the beta program....

JCat
04-02-2005, 06:37 PM
I'm using 3DS Max which saves ASE files. I tried a quick test with a simple cylinder, and I'm getting the same problem as 2005. Will keep hacking at it...

Where's Klinn! :)

live_the_thrill
04-02-2005, 06:54 PM
I downloaded that 3D Object Converter, and now what! These friggin programmes are so hard to use, i try to open a picture using that converter, and it says no vaild object found!!

Someone please help me!!

Klinn
04-02-2005, 07:54 PM
Woo-hoo! I've created my first custom walls, along with some roof pieces to go along with them. They form a broad curve (4 pieces form a circle approx 6 tiles across) so I can try to do some "organic" flowing curved walls.

http://www.designamatic.com/Graphics/RCT3-Elec01-Big.jpg


They will be used for my upcoming 'ElectroShock Coaster', so there are also some electrical pylons and such.

http://www.designamatic.com/Graphics/RCT3-Elec03-Big.jpg


Here's an overall view of one structure, shows the curves better. Yes, the coaster does dive right into the building.

http://www.designamatic.com/Graphics/RCT3-Elec02-Big.jpg


I did the electrical posts with a glossy finish, kinda metal-ish. Sorta. :)

http://www.designamatic.com/Graphics/RCT3-Elec04-Big.jpg


Such fun... well, back to work! :D

Vodhin
04-02-2005, 07:57 PM
Whohoo! Klinn has just made "The International Space Station" Coaster! Looks fantastic, Klinn!

JCat
04-02-2005, 08:11 PM
Klinn - that's mega-flipping-superb! I love it! :up:


Do you create your own textures or does JW's importer not need it? I wish you can post a screen of one object you saved directly from your 3D editor so I can get an idea of what's going on with an issue or two I'm having. :haha:

tikitiki
04-02-2005, 08:14 PM
Wow! Fantastic job!!

marnetmar
04-02-2005, 08:24 PM
Those look Great Klinn, Awesome work :up: :up: :up: :up: :up:

Bitter Jeweler
04-02-2005, 09:13 PM
So.....Klinn.....are you going to honor us with a Tutorial?
Please? :(

WalkingSnake
04-02-2005, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by live_the_thrill
I downloaded that 3D Object Converter, and now what! These friggin programmes are so hard to use, i try to open a picture using that converter, and it says no vaild object found!!

Someone please help me!!

LMAO!!!!! Maybe try using a 3D model instead of a picture? :haha:

Klinn
04-02-2005, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by Pumper
Do you create your own textures or does JW's importer not need it? I wish you can post a screen of one object you saved directly from your 3D editor so I can get an idea of what's going on with an issue or two I'm having. :haha: I'm using my own textures - when you do the 'Create OVL' command, you can specify the bitmap you want to use as a texture. At the moment, I'm just using a very simple light cream colour with a bit of noise tossed in - a feeble attempt at a sorta light sandstone texture. :) (That's for the walls & roofs, of course the posts use a different bitmap as their texture.)

Not sure how much help they'll be, but here are a couple of screen captures from Max6 of one type of wall, and one of the electrical posts. (Edit: thank goodness I convinced the boss at work that we needed 3DSMax - I sure couldn't have afforded it on my own!)

http://www.designamatic.com/Graphics/RCT3-Elec05-Big.jpg

http://www.designamatic.com/Graphics/RCT3-Elec06-Big.jpg


The above shots are after all the parts that make up each object were merged together. As you've found out, so far JonWil's Importer only accepts a single mesh for each object. You might notice that the post is offset from 0,0,0 - this is so when a custom firework is added (which is a 1/4 tile object) then it ends up centered within the coil.

Bitter Jeweler: I can do a tutorial after I figure out how to use this properly. ;) I've done 3D work before, but never for a game. So there are some strange things going on with, for example, vertex color mapping that I'm puzzled by. I'm actually hoping that somebody with more game modding experience will jump in here and help out.

By the way, THANKS AGAIN JONWIL for giving us a cool toy to play with! :up: :up: :up:

Bitter Jeweler
04-02-2005, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by Klinn
Bitter Jeweler: I can do a tutorial after I figure out how to use this properly. ;) I've done 3D work before, but never for a game. So there are some strange things going on with, for example, vertex color mapping that I'm puzzled by. I'm actually hoping that somebody with more game modding experience will jump in here and help out.

By the way, THANKS AGAIN JONWIL for giving us a cool toy to play with! :up: :up: :up:


Thats what i am waiting for...I do some jewelery designing with 3D programs, but mostly Rhino3. So i don't know much about 3DMax, or .ase files or importing to a game....

Hopefully soon more of us can learn.
Klinn, you are doing some mighty cool things with it already.
Everytime you post a pic, I think we all get a little more anxious!
I don't know what i am more excited about....Soaked, or JonWil's editor!

JonWill, Thanks for all your hard work!

David

JCat
04-02-2005, 11:43 PM
Wow - excellent sample Klinn, thank you for that. Your screen shots really show you can have some might nice objects, as long as they're merged as a single mesh. One last question if I may (I won't bug ya' after this):

Did you originally assign, and save, the texture in 3DMAX with the object? Or does Jonwill's program actually map the object by choosing any bmp texture (independant from the 3D program)?


Thanks again!

WalkingSnake
04-02-2005, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by Pumper
Did you originally assign, and save, the texture in 3DMAX with the object? Or does Jonwill's program actually map the object by choosing any bmp texture (independant from the 3D program)?

Independant BMP texture. It doesn't use the textures from the 3D program, but I hope it'll be able to in the future.

Buggy
04-02-2005, 11:50 PM
Klinn,

That's pretty amazing. I'm still getting the too many objects error.

Any chance you could send the ase file so I can try to see what I'm doing wrong?

jonwil
04-02-2005, 11:55 PM
3DS (ad ASE files) have per-face texture coordinates.
But RCT3 expects per-vertex texture coordinates.
So, that might be why some of you are getting texture allignment problems.

Looks like multi-object support is the #1 most wanted feature :)

Has anyone made any progress on figuring out all the unknown bits?

JCat
04-03-2005, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by Buggy
Klinn,

That's pretty amazing. I'm still getting the too many objects error.

Any chance you could send the ase file so I can try to see what I'm doing wrong?

Same here - this sees to be my stumbling block. LOL

Just to get started, I used a standard box primitive - saved it, converted to ASE and boom: " multiple objects, can't convert mesh" message pops up. The box is one object, but I wonder if it thinks each side of the box is a seperate object? This is with Milkshape which I'm use to using.

OK, in 3DSMAX, when you make a simple object, is there some kind of group command so all sides of an object are not treated seperately? I'm just taking shots here..... :haha:

2005
04-03-2005, 07:11 AM
Originally posted by jonwil
3DS (ad ASE files) have per-face texture coordinates.
But RCT3 expects per-vertex texture coordinates.
So, that might be why some of you are getting texture allignment problems.

Looks like multi-object support is the #1 most wanted feature :)

Has anyone made any progress on figuring out all the unknown bits?


Jonwil the .ase files we are creating only have 1 mesh. But the program still dosn't allow conversion.

Although multiple object conversion would be usful later, its not the problem now.

if it allows these objects to be added, even though they are only 1 mesh, then it would be usful now.



OK, in 3DSMAX, when you make a simple object, is there some kind of group command so all sides of an object are not treated seperately? I'm just taking shots here.....

Interesting we are all getting the same error from different programs. I know in anim8or you need to use the join solids command. thats easy enough to get a single mesh. But you still get the same error.

I tried zmodler too - same problem. It seems 3dmax is the only program that is working right now.

jonwil
04-03-2005, 08:29 AM
If someone sends me a sample ASE file that is failing, I can see why it spits out that error.

Elukka
04-03-2005, 08:45 AM
Great job jonwil!
Klinn, are you going to release those pieces some day? They are awesome...

2005
04-03-2005, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by jonwil
If someone sends me a sample ASE file that is failing, I can see why it spits out that error.


www.sfx.org.uk/sphere.ASE (46KB)

marnetmar
04-03-2005, 01:27 PM
Here's another one Jonwill, this model was made with MilkShape. I don't know if there would be any difference in the problem or not.

Thank You very much Jonwil for making this tool for everyone to use. I know it'll get a lot of use & add to the game greatly.


http://modstothemax.net/mttmcommunity/download.php?id=1244

WalkingSnake
04-03-2005, 02:48 PM
Is there any way to use actual textures that won't look weird in-game?

WalkingSnake
04-03-2005, 02:50 PM
Also, here's something I'm having trouble with. It crashes when I try to create the OVL. (no error message)

http://asciicomic.com/bar.ASE

2005
04-03-2005, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by WalkingSnake
Is there any way to use actual textures that won't look weird in-game?


why do the textures look weird?

jonwil
04-03-2005, 07:02 PM
ok, in the case of both 2005 and marnetmar, those test objects contain a superfulous object named "root".
Open the ase file in notepad and delete the object and it should work.

marnetmar
04-03-2005, 07:46 PM
Thanks Jonwil, I'll give that a try :up:

JCat
04-03-2005, 08:15 PM
I removed the "root" reference, in fact, I believe you need to remove the whole refererence (the parameters) of that refererence. Doing so, I was able to save an object without the mesh error. At that point, I'm not sure where/how to install it, as there's no docs yet on the rest of the program (totally not a complaint by the way). I first stuck the two files in one of the scenery directories, but nothing showed up in RCT3. I then decided to go the old route, and replace an exisiting object (bishop) with my object, but in RCT3, it simply froze when selecting the bishop piece. All it is - is a sphere.


This was what I deleted out of the .ase file:

}
*GEOMOBJECT {
*NODE_NAME "root"
*NODE_TM {
*NODE_NAME "root"
*INHERIT_POS 0 0 0
*INHERIT_ROT 0 0 0
*INHERIT_SCL 0 0 0
*TM_ROW0 1.000 0.000 0.000
*TM_ROW1 0.000 1.000 0.000
*TM_ROW2 0.000 0.000 1.000
*TM_ROW3 0.000 0.000 0.000
*TM_POS 0.000 0.000 0.000
*TM_ROTAXIS 1.000 0.000 0.000
*TM_ROTANGLE 0.000
*TM_SCALE 1.000 1.000 1.000
*TM_SCALEAXIS 1.000 0.000 0.000
*TM_SCALEAXISANG 0.000
}

WalkingSnake
04-03-2005, 08:26 PM
File > Install Theme ;)

Also be sure to set "Texture Name" to SIOpaque (or something similar) when building the OVL.

gdude335
04-03-2005, 08:38 PM
this is great!
i am not going to try this yet but i am going to give you guys some sites with 3d objects:
http://www.3dlands.com/
http://www.geocities.com/threedmadness/index.html
http://www.3d-resources.com/3d_models.php
then some ppl could host a big rct3 object site!

Buggy
04-03-2005, 08:55 PM
I tried deleting the root object, and now the converter sends an exception.

http://www.interactivitiesink.com/rct3/chesspawn.ASE

JCat
04-03-2005, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by WalkingSnake
File > Install Theme ;)

Also be sure to set "Texture Name" to SIOpaque (or something similar) when building the OVL.


Did all that.. no doubt, we need a quick step by step -- no progress yet. Thanks :)

WalkingSnake
04-03-2005, 11:05 PM
Right now I'm working on signs for the park. "Burger Bar" "Food Court" "Restrooms" etc..

marnetmar
04-04-2005, 01:36 AM
Originally posted by jonwil
Looks like multi-object support is the #1 most wanted feature :)

I would say that & the use of transparent files for textures, preferably in .png format. Thanks again for the great program Jonwil, now if we can all get it figured out we'll have a ton of new "goodies" to play with. ;)

JCat
04-04-2005, 01:46 AM
Figured it out - installed the theme - made a simple tower, and it worked! There's definitely a number of steps involved to install the theme, but it frigging works! Of course, I figured it out at like 1:45 in the morning - on a Sunday (no it couldn't be a Saturday of course), and I'm heading off to bed. If anyone still needs help, tomorrow I'll post some basic instructions. There's still a lot to figure out....

marnetmar
04-04-2005, 01:53 AM
That's Great news Pumper, I'm glad to hear it :up: :up: :up: :up: I'll be bugging you tomorrow, get some much needed rest my friend.

speile
04-04-2005, 10:09 AM
right, ive made every thing, and then i click install theme and nothing happens,

currently i have the folowing files made by the editor

obj1.common.ovl
obj1.unique.ovl
objtheme.thm

The theme file includes the ovl files above and all data about it (ie price, location name, description, logo... etc

Any help welcom

jonwil
04-04-2005, 10:23 AM
Check in your RCT3 folder under style\themed.
Install Theme should have put a folder in there with all the data.

speile
04-04-2005, 10:42 AM
nope, still nothing

also, ive managed to crash the editor, just by creating the scenery, ill send you the ase file that does it if you want...

2005
04-04-2005, 11:29 AM
When i'm asleep you post all this stuff!!! I'm going to try this now.

pumper a few instructions here would help........



For reference (someone should add this to the help files in the future releases)

Originally posted by Pumper

}
*GEOMOBJECT {
*NODE_NAME "root"
*NODE_TM {
*NODE_NAME "root"
*INHERIT_POS 0 0 0
*INHERIT_ROT 0 0 0
*INHERIT_SCL 0 0 0
*TM_ROW0 1.000 0.000 0.000
*TM_ROW1 0.000 1.000 0.000
*TM_ROW2 0.000 0.000 1.000
*TM_ROW3 0.000 0.000 0.000
*TM_POS 0.000 0.000 0.000
*TM_ROTAXIS 1.000 0.000 0.000
*TM_ROTANGLE 0.000
*TM_SCALE 1.000 1.000 1.000
*TM_SCALEAXIS 1.000 0.000 0.000
*TM_SCALEAXISANG 0.000
}



Deleting this and this only, any more crashes the editor.


Textures
Have to bit 256 colour .bmps
64x64 seems to work ok.

live_the_thrill
04-04-2005, 12:07 PM
Ok, all this talk has lost me, i just want to make a crooked roof, is that so hard to ask for!!

Also, could you use a CAD software for it?

2005
04-04-2005, 12:16 PM
^possibly as long as it exports to .3ds or .ase

But something like anim8or is much better. CAD software isn't really for designed for this purpose. If you have 3dmax of course use that becasue it saves directly as .ase which is much better. Most of the above stuff is a work around.


i got the objects made but don't undertstand the theme menus.

Anyone figured it out yet? Can objects be added manually? I tired placing the objects in folders but they don't show.........wasn't really surprised, i guess theres a sort of index somewhere for objects - is this what the .thm files do?


EDIT: worked it all out, but rct3 just crashes on start-up until i remove the theme - This creates a whole new them alonside generic/spooky and all that? I thought you could only create a subtheme within one of the theme types? The editor sorta implies this.


Some screens of the menus in game from people who got this working would help.......


http://img50.exs.cx/img50/9961/fb13lb.jpg

http://img50.exs.cx/img50/2914/fb22rw.jpg

http://img50.exs.cx/img50/514/fb37vy.jpg

could the problem be with the .common.ovl or a texture?

JCat
04-04-2005, 12:53 PM
I'm at work, so I have no access to my "stuff" right now - but off the top of my head, here's what I remember:

After the two ovls are created (your object in other words), you need to go to the edit menu on Jonwil's program, and select each thing on the menu and fill it out (text string, icon texture, etc..). When that is all done, THEN you go to manage scenery, and fill EVERYTHING out - even the boxes that say "unknown" I simply put a '1' in there otherwise the window won't disappear (save).

When you get to the icon texture selection, you have to have a texture to select, and it has to be true color 512 x 512. In fact, do this first, and select icon texture first before doing the other parts of the edit selection menu. Instead of using Adobe, I simply went in to the windows horrid paint program, sprayed some paint on 512 x 512 box, and when saving, it asked what bit, etc.. and I chose 24 bit.

Funny thing is, the icon actually doesn't show up in RCT3 - but the name of my object did, but at that point, I was glad enough to be able to get my object working in RCT3.

That texture by the way has nothing to do with the object texture which has to be 8 bit ! Yes, confusing but that has to be done.

After everything on "manage scenery" is filled out - you you click "ok" - you then "install theme" and it should install the proper files. I had it install in the flowers folder since it's easy to find and it showed up there.

I'll try to get samples shots of the menus up LATE tonight (US time).

2005
04-04-2005, 01:35 PM
I worked most of that stuff out ^ already but thanks for the instructions anyway - it'll help other people.

I put a 1 in the boxes too - guess we think the same way!!!!

(for anyone else, until you know what those boxes do, a value of 1 is best becasue any multiple of 1 is that number, ie Yx1=Y).


anyway, even after all that, RCT3 crashes so i don't know whats wrong. I got the object working once, but it crashed when i tried to select it.

I tried a different object but then makes rct3 crash on startup.

its almost random. I guess it depends on the scenery edit box (so many varibles.........).

I didn't understand what "top left right" means on the icon texture.

Any ideas?


EDIT:

http://img83.exs.cx/img83/4686/sphere1nr.jpg


only problem is, when i place it, the object is totally invisible.

I had put it in fences, i'll try moving it to something else and changing the settings. Any settings you used that you know worked?

JCat
04-04-2005, 01:49 PM
I also don't understand what "top/ left/ right/bottom" means on the icon texture, so of course, I just put "1" - LOL!

OK, I had the invisible object problem too. What texture "style" are you using? Don't know if this has anything to do with it, but I used the standard SIopague (forgot spelling, but it's the first one on the opague choices) -- when I used one of the other SIopague (like SIopague_O?) my object didn't show up.

2005
04-04-2005, 02:10 PM
i was using a different version - that could be the problem!!!


I noticed also the object was unplacable if the posistion tags for x,y,z were 1. When these are tags are 0, the object appears to be placable.
I haven't tried other values yet (ie 2,3,4,5).

Values of object size don't seem to make any difference, as long as they aren't 0.

size in squares needs to be 1 or my game crashes. Thats set to'full tile'. (for now thats all thats needed anyway - i'll let other people build walls and stuff).



means making a new .common.ovl well i'll try that !!!


EDIT: it worked!!!!

one problem - it looks dark blue when the bitmap was a plain white texture (was trying to create a white sphere) Whats wrong with that?

Could the 'siopaque' be a undefined or generic texture surface?


Noticed two interesting things - the game placed the sphere half in the ground. It could be raised easily with shift, but which flag controls that do you think?

Also the game rotates it about a distant point - it looked approx 5 squares, but i'll have a look to see if i can find whats deciding that.

well its half way there anyway.

JCat
04-04-2005, 02:37 PM
Maybe the white texture took on the color of light reflection? Flip through day/night modes - see if it changes color? Actually, now that I remember, I made a white background with some color graffiti - and it appeared blueish with the graffiti 'in game'. Then I made another object just using a sold red texture, and that appeared a perfect red in game.

As for the object appearing half 'sunk' when placed, yep - same here. I'm sure one of those variables in the scenery manager has to do with that. Notice when shift it doesn't automatically stack on top of the last item? It's kind of free-flowing, which actually is cool in a way.

I wish Jonwil can just let us know what the all the variables are in the scenery manager - just a quick list. :-)

2005
04-04-2005, 02:52 PM
he probably dosn't know - its for us to find out!!!

I guess when looking at the .common.ovl there are loads of numbers, and he figured out how to edit them, not what they all actually do in game.
hes given some, presumably the ones he knows and are essential.

From trying different options out, they (most) don't appear to do much, so i would guess most relate to more complicated stuff to do with fences and signs and things.

Maybe for example how a scenery item affects the excitement rating of rides and from what distance the peeps can see it/ it has effect on a ride. Thats just a guess though. The unknown 1-18 could be distance it has an effect on rides and levels unknown 1-3 the effect on ride ratings. or peep hapiness. Or many other things. Could take a while to figure out everything.


I tried different textures out, only siopaque works at all it seems (though obviously i haven't tried everyone). I'll try with a different colour texture - weird that we can't have white in game though.


EDIT: it works now, although the texture looks much duller than it does in paint.

Going to try a more complicated structure.

WalkingSnake
04-04-2005, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by 2005
Noticed two interesting things - the game placed the sphere half in the ground. It could be raised easily with shift, but which flag controls that do you think?

Also the game rotates it about a distant point - it looked approx 5 squares, but i'll have a look to see if i can find whats deciding that.

well its half way there anyway.

The model is too low. Go back in to your 3D editor and move the object up a little bit. I would move it to the axis. Keep in mind that in RCT3, the Y axis is up. (or at least it's like that in 3DS Max) And for it rotating at a distant point, that also has to do with the model.

Neither of those are problems with the editor.


Also, the above post has some pretty good guesses on the unknowns. :)

2005
04-04-2005, 05:31 PM
It would be helpful if frontier told us.

But we know each object probably has a 'halo' effect on rides (and peeps) around it.

So that needs values for 'strength' and 'distance' (probably).

I always thought peeps saw scenery and that made them happy (or whatever) but thinking about it, its more likely i think that the scenery has an effect on any peeps within a given radius. (like +1 happiness).


Maybe there is a main distance control for the halo effect and then different strength values for peeps/rides (so a tree makes a ride exciting but a peep finds the tree boring).

I'm sure its more complex than that but its a good thing to look out for.

Theres also the issue having all that in 3D............


Back to the model its easily sorted. The textures are a little dissapointing, but getting the objects in the game is good enough for now.

Griffman
04-04-2005, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by Klinn
Woo-hoo! I've created my first custom walls, along with some roof pieces to go along with them. They form a broad curve (4 pieces form a circle approx 6 tiles across) so I can try to do some "organic" flowing curved walls.
http://www.designamatic.com/Graphics/RCT3-Elec01-Big.jpg

They will be used for my upcoming 'ElectroShock Coaster', so there are also some electrical pylons and such.
http://www.designamatic.com/Graphics/RCT3-Elec03-Big.jpg

Here's an overall view of one structure, shows the curves better. Yes, the coaster does dive right into the building.
http://www.designamatic.com/Graphics/RCT3-Elec02-Big.jpg

I did the electrical posts with a glossy finish, kinda metal-ish. Sorta. :)
http://www.designamatic.com/Graphics/RCT3-Elec04-Big.jpg

Such fun... well, back to work! :D
http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/ed/smileeek.gif http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/ed/smileeek.gif http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/ed/smileeek.gif
OMG!!! Can u please put those up 4 download they're amazing!!!

JCat
04-04-2005, 06:05 PM
Which brings up yet another new question: When we create objects, how will people be able to install pre-created scenery? :bulb:

2005
04-04-2005, 06:23 PM
they just have to put the stuff in the correct folder.

I'm assuming you haven't looked at the file structure yet, but its fairly simple.

Theres no install as such i think - rct3 checks everytime for new stuff.


Everytime time i modify something i delete the old folders to make sure the new files are put there.

klinn is obviously a skilled modeler - could you offer any hints on how to make good textures? my attempt, rct3 stretched the texture over the whole object (i thought it would tesselate).


I think for general use objects need to be very polygon light, to me thats the whole point of creating them. A few walls and stuff are nice but huge structures would be cool too (and they don't have to be high detail, just need good textures).

Klinn also has much more advanced tools, but for most people anim8or is good enough. Pumper what did you use?


Keep posting this page is has too many screens need to go to page 4 -> -> -> -> ->

JCat
04-04-2005, 06:46 PM
I'm using Milkshape and 3DSMax - but I'll probably use more Max as I now figured out how to save direct .ase files without that too many objects error. I've built a number of models in the past for Ultimate Ride, No Limits and Scream Machines.

2005
04-04-2005, 07:09 PM
I think making objects should be for everyone not an elite few people like some other games.

I'll write some easy to follow tutorials when the betaeditor gets easier to use.

WalkingSnake
04-04-2005, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by 2005
I think making objects should be for everyone not an elite few people like some other games.

I'd be surprised. Most people from these forums probably downloaded Jonwil's editor thinking it'd be just like the RCT2 editor. They sure were surprised. ;) 80-90% of the people on this forum probably wouldn't be able to figure it out without a tutorial.

I'm not trying to be insulting, just saying..

2005
04-04-2005, 07:50 PM
yeah i know fair point.

Although i find 3d much easier than 2d - i couldn't figure out the 2d stuff.

At least let them try, becasue theres going to be a few very good people, and a larger group of people like me who are far from experts but know enough to try. its that 10-20% you want to help :)
Thats enough people.

When all the flags are figured out, the editor will be easier to use. The worse part is making the models.

Anyway lets just keep this thread on topic - finding about how the editor and objects work. I hope the best people will share information.

Bitter Jeweler
04-04-2005, 08:27 PM
I downloaded it and gave it a shot....

ha ha ha ha ha....

I finally found out how to export my things from Rhino3 to 3Dmax.
But when saving the object as an .ASE file, 3Dmax asks a lot of questions (checkboxes for this and that). What are the correct values?

Output Options:
Mesh Definition? yes or no
Materials? yes or no
Transfor animation keys?

Mesh Options:
Mesh normals?
Mapping coordinates?
Vertex Colors?

Object Types:
Geometric?
Shapes?
Cameras?
Lights?
Helpers?

Static Output:
Frame # ?
Precision:
Decimals (what value?)

Needless to say, I didn't get very far with "Importing" :)

WalkingSnake
04-04-2005, 08:51 PM
Use the default values, plus make sure Mesh normals and Mapping coordinates are checked.

Twister2489
04-04-2005, 10:10 PM
Is the BITurn able to convert files from anim8or?
It says it is an unknown file.

Sorry if its already been mentioned, but don't have time to look through the whole topic right now...

circleVision
04-05-2005, 12:22 AM
Originally posted by Klinn
Woo-hoo! I've created my first custom walls, along with some roof pieces to go along with them. They form a broad curve (4 pieces form a circle approx 6 tiles across) so I can try to do some "organic" flowing curved walls.

http://www.designamatic.com/Graphics/RCT3-Elec01-Big.jpg


They will be used for my upcoming 'ElectroShock Coaster', so there are also some electrical pylons and such.

http://www.designamatic.com/Graphics/RCT3-Elec03-Big.jpg


Here's an overall view of one structure, shows the curves better. Yes, the coaster does dive right into the building.

http://www.designamatic.com/Graphics/RCT3-Elec02-Big.jpg


I did the electrical posts with a glossy finish, kinda metal-ish. Sorta. :)

http://www.designamatic.com/Graphics/RCT3-Elec04-Big.jpg


Such fun... well, back to work! :D

How friggin" awesome Klinn. I really am jealous. I wouldn't even know where to begin when it comes to this stuff.

Once again beautiful job Klinn!!!!

marnetmar
04-05-2005, 12:54 AM
Well, they're not real pretty, but they're in the game & working, which is a good first step. This is going to take some practice & some trial & error on everyone's part, but it's a excellent start for new stuff for the game.


HUGE Thanks to Jonwil for his work on giving us this program & also to Pumper for his help with this project




http://modstothemax.net/mttmcommunity/files/rocks_in_game_172.jpg
Rocks In Game

JCat
04-05-2005, 02:03 AM
As mentioned in the Mods to the Max Forum, your first sample (rocks above) is excelllent, Marn! Were you able to stack them? Yesterday I can stack a stupid solid block, yet with this new beige textured piece below, it won't stack (well, it lets me stack but it stamps invisble above the original object -- yet still deducts the cost). :haha:

Notice the second screen shot, the texture mapping is not there yet...

http://www.trackworx.com/sample1.jpg
http://www.trackworx.com/sample2.jpg

2005
04-05-2005, 06:53 AM
Originally posted by Twister2489
Is the BITurn able to convert files from anim8or?
It says it is an unknown file.

Sorry if its already been mentioned, but don't have time to look through the whole topic right now...

you need to export to .3ds bi turn can't read .an8 files.

Then convert the .3ds into .ase and remove the extra stuff (see earlier pots) and it should work.





Had no probs with stacking, but whats up with the textures?

http://img102.exs.cx/img102/3953/untitled9bd.jpg

Twister2489
04-05-2005, 04:47 PM
I'm trying to make a simple sphere. I've exported it to .3ds, and used biturn to convert to .ase. No problem there.

Before that, I joined solids and such just as people said...no problem.

Now, I go to the create new OVL file, and select the file, texture, and the texture style name (siopaque, as someone told me). I go to save and I get the "Multiple objects, can't convert mesh" error, and thats as far as I have gotten.

Did i forget something?

*sigh*

I'm gonna figure this out, other people seem to be doing so.

JCat
04-05-2005, 04:51 PM
Twister - for some reason, Biturn adds some root information which is what's causing the mutliple object error. First, make sure it is one object you are importing (I didn't even have to join solids).
Then, after the conversion to .ASE is done, you need to open the object up with note pad and take out the following chunk of info and save:


*GEOMOBJECT {
*NODE_NAME "root"
*NODE_TM {
*NODE_NAME "root"
*INHERIT_POS 0 0 0
*INHERIT_ROT 0 0 0
*INHERIT_SCL 0 0 0
*TM_ROW0 1.000 0.000 0.000
*TM_ROW1 0.000 1.000 0.000
*TM_ROW2 0.000 0.000 1.000
*TM_ROW3 0.000 0.000 0.000
*TM_POS 0.000 0.000 0.000
*TM_ROTAXIS 1.000 0.000 0.000
*TM_ROTANGLE 0.000
*TM_SCALE 1.000 1.000 1.000
*TM_SCALEAXIS 1.000 0.000 0.000
*TM_SCALEAXISANG 0.000
}

JCat
04-05-2005, 04:55 PM
2005 - yeah, the texture problem is known. Jonwil's aware of it from what I read earlier. My sample has the same problem if you look at the edge. The texture isn't wrapping correctly (mapping). Right now, it looks line only round items (sphere-ish) will work right because they have no flat sides.

marnetmar
04-05-2005, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by Pumper
As mentioned in the Mods to the Max Forum, your first sample (rocks above) is excelllent, Marn! Were you able to stack them? Yesterday I can stack a stupid solid block, yet with this new beige textured piece below, it won't stack (well, it lets me stack but it stamps invisble above the original object -- yet still deducts the cost). :haha:

Notice the second screen shot, the texture mapping is not there yet...

http://www.trackworx.com/sample1.jpg
http://www.trackworx.com/sample2.jpg


I'm having the same issue with stacking, it's there, but you can't see it for some reason. I think it's something in the settings, but I'm not sure what. I'm hoping we can get this & the texture mapping sorted out real soon.

Twister2489
04-05-2005, 05:13 PM
Thanks I got past the mesh error, but at the same spot I get:

"Texture not square 8bpp image with height/width a power of 2."

What does that mean?!

Oh, and if I ever get this figured out, which I know I will...will the objects be colorable, or is that another thing that I have to do in the editor?

2005
04-05-2005, 05:16 PM
the last screen i posted is a stacked pyramid model - three in total. its not one object.


Weird though when i added a new object just now, no matter how i rotated it in A8 it was always upside down.

A rotation viewer/editor at the .ase to .ovl conversion stage would be really usful (maybe could be comibined with a texture viewer/editor of some sort?)

2005
04-05-2005, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by Twister2489
Thanks I got past the mesh error, but at the same spot I get:

"Texture not square 8bpp image with height/width a power of 2."

What does that mean?!

Oh, and if I ever get this figured out, which I know I will...will the objects be colorable, or is that another thing that I have to do in the editor?


You only get 1 texture per object.

You need to make the bitmap square and 8 bit (256 colour). Mspaint can do this ok.

The square size dosn't seem to matter, but i wouldn't go over 512 by 512 just yet. The largest texture i've tried so far is 512x512 without any problems. But i know 256x256, 64x64 and 128x128 also work so whatever you want really as long as its square.

Twister2489
04-05-2005, 05:56 PM
Thank you 2005 and Pumper, I really do appreciate this.
I'm almost there.

I've almost got everything filled out.
I'm not sure what to do for "Location within theme".
I've tried a few things but not much luck. After I do that right, I install the theme?

JCat
04-05-2005, 07:01 PM
That will be a folder your stuff is put in (location within a theme).

Then when you get back to the main screen on Jonwil's converter, you name the theme (that will be the main directory and the location with a theme will be inside of that automatically).

Now, click on one of the left column themes (generic, western, etc..) - this part I still don't understand, but it won't let you proceed if you don't do it.

OK, now click "install theme".

marnetmar
04-05-2005, 11:14 PM
After a lot of tries, I managed to get another prop into the game, although for some reason this one is sideways, so I'll have to make adjustments for that & resize it & try it again. You can see the texture mapping issue on this side, although the other side looks fine.


http://modstothemax.net/mttmcommunity/files/cactus_test_139.jpg
Cactus Prop in game

JCat
04-05-2005, 11:18 PM
LOL - that's exclellent Marn! For a second I thought it was a deformed cucumber planning an attack on the ride inspector. But in all seriousness, I can see exactly what it is, and it looks great! I like the texture -(can't wait to Jonwil addresses this, if he's up to it?). Yep, I'm having the same problem too - created a tunnel, it wound up on its side. Created another object, saved it on its side IN the modeling program, and guess what, it STILL came in to RCT3 on its side. :bulb:

WalkingSnake
04-05-2005, 11:22 PM
Everyone, try checking the 1st checkbox on the 5th row. That may help so the object can't be placed on paths, etc, unless it's supposed to.

2005
04-06-2005, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by Pumper
LOL - that's exclellent Marn! For a second I thought it was a deformed cucumber planning an attack on the ride inspector. But in all seriousness, I can see exactly what it is, and it looks great! I like the texture -(can't wait to Jonwil addresses this, if he's up to it?). Yep, I'm having the same problem too - created a tunnel, it wound up on its side. Created another object, saved it on its side IN the modeling program, and guess what, it STILL came in to RCT3 on its side. :bulb:


I had exactly the same problem with an object which i haven't posted a screen of here. So why did all the objects work initially? People have only started posting about this yesterday/today................

WalkingSnake
04-06-2005, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by 2005
You only get 1 texture per object.

You need to make the bitmap square and 8 bit (256 colour). Mspaint can do this ok.

The square size dosn't seem to matter, but i wouldn't go over 512 by 512 just yet. The largest texture i've tried so far is 512x512 without any problems. But i know 256x256, 64x64 and 128x128 also work so whatever you want really as long as its square.

Actually, the textures have to be a power of 2, and square.

marnetmar
04-06-2005, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by 2005
I had exactly the same problem with an object which i haven't posted a screen of here. So why did all the objects work initially? People have only started posting about this yesterday/today................

I'm not sure that some of them weren't turned 2005, some of the props people have made, like a box, or the rock I made, would be hard to tell if it was flipped sideways or not since the texture is the same all over & would be hard to tell with the shape.

WalkingSnake
04-06-2005, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by marnetmar
I'm not sure that some of them weren't turned 2005, some of the props people have made, like a box, or the rock I made, would be hard to tell if it was flipped sideways or not since the texture is the same all over & would be hard to tell with the shape.

Just a reminder, in RCT3, the Y AXIS is up, instead of the normal Z Axis.

2005
04-06-2005, 05:20 PM
Well i guess i sort of did that anyway, i only made textures in powers of 2 (64, 128, 256) anyway. Anyone tried 1024? is there a limit in rct3 or the graphics card your using? Or just a memory limit? I can't imagine using more than 512 but you never know..............



Just a reminder, in RCT3, the Y AXIS is up, instead of the normal Z Axis.

ok thanks

marnetmar
04-06-2005, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by WalkingSnake
Just a reminder, in RCT3, the Y AXIS is up, instead of the normal Z Axis.


It's the same in MilkShape, but somewhere in the transformation from a ms3d file to the ase something gets jumbled up lol No biggie though, I got it straighened out now. The cactus is upright, just need to resize & that'll be fixed.


http://modstothemax.net/mttmcommunity/files/getting_there_187.jpg

2005
04-06-2005, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by marnetmar
I'm not sure that some of them weren't turned 2005, some of the props people have made, like a box, or the rock I made, would be hard to tell if it was flipped sideways or not since the texture is the same all over & would be hard to tell with the shape.


yeah i guess we all made spheres to start with lol :)


is anyone collecting all this information to write a tutorial?

JCat
04-06-2005, 06:34 PM
Looks really great marn! Cactus look good- but yeah, I'm having a problem with the object sizes as well. I purposely scaled an object down insanely smaller then usual in both MS and 3DMax, and they're still coming out mega huge in RCT3. I wonder if there's a connection here, to the settings in the scenery manager (those x/y/z inputs..). I tried putting in a negative number, and that crashed it. :haha:

WalkingSnake
04-06-2005, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by Pumper
Looks really great marn! Cactus look good- but yeah, I'm having a problem with the object sizes as well. I purposely scaled an object down insanely smaller then usual in both MS and 3DMax, and they're still coming out mega huge in RCT3. I wonder if there's a connection here, to the settings in the scenery manager (those x/y/z inputs..). I tried putting in a negative number, and that crashed it. :haha:

It has nothing to do with the x/y/z inputs. I usually put 1 for all of those. It all has to do with the model. Try shrinking it more, that's the only solution.

Pal_Pal
04-06-2005, 08:10 PM
Would someone please post a sample ASE file that works.

marnetmar
04-06-2005, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by Pumper
Looks really great marn! Cactus look good- but yeah, I'm having a problem with the object sizes as well. I purposely scaled an object down insanely smaller then usual in both MS and 3DMax, and they're still coming out mega huge in RCT3. I wonder if there's a connection here, to the settings in the scenery manager (those x/y/z inputs..). I tried putting in a negative number, and that crashed it. :haha:

Thanks Pumper, Have you tried changing the settings in the "Edit Scenery Settings"? In the lower left it has "Size In Squares" X Y settings, I used 1, but you might try a setting of 0.5 or 0.25 in each & see if that will shrink it down smaller. I haven't tried it yet, I was just going to make the model smaller, which from what you said may not work.

WalkingSnake
04-06-2005, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by marnetmar
Thanks Pumper, Have you tried changing the settings in the "Edit Scenery Settings"? In the lower left it has "Size In Squares" X Y settings, I used 1, but you might try a setting of 0.5 or 0.25 in each & see if that will shrink it down smaller. I haven't tried it yet, I was just going to make the model smaller, which from what you said may not work.

That's not what you want. That just sets how many tiles it is. Unless it is more than 1x1, leave it at 1 and 1. If it's Quarter/Half tile, just leave it at 1x1 and choose whatever you want from the dropdown next to it.

None of the settings in the editor have any affect on the model as far as I know.

2005
04-06-2005, 08:45 PM
The models in rct3 are much bigger than you'd expect; i just build a model then scale it down when its finished to approx the right size.
I think fairly quickly people will be able to guess the approx size.
The height of a peep is something like 0.01 of a unit.

I leave all values as 1, especially the unknowns. I'm not really bothered about collision detection, as long as the model looks ok.......it needs careful placment to look realistic, but better that than getting loads of placement errors/problems. Ideally objects could be placed anywhere, its just easier.

marnetmar
04-06-2005, 08:47 PM
Thanks WalkingSnake & 2005 I'll just make it smaller, I wasn't sure if we could change it with Jonwil's program or not. ;)

JCat
04-06-2005, 08:51 PM
Thanks for the tips - tonight I'll begin desgining beyond micro-sized models, and simply zoom in big time while in the 3D design phase. :D

2005
04-06-2005, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by Pal_Pal
Would someone please post a sample ASE file that works.


you need to be more specific..........what stage you at?


I think walkingsnake is right (about something he posted earlier) that objects SHOULDN'T be released yet until more is known........ so far when installing objects, and the game crashes, removing the objects will undo the problem casuing the crash and let the game run normally,
at least from my expierince but that dosn't mean there isn't a chance objects could cause problems.

I accept that if i have to reinstall the game, then it happens, but i wouldn't want any of my objects to cause any probs (for other people)........Although so far it hasn't happened, and i've tried delibratly to make the game crash several times (you should do this to test any program) by putting unrealistic values in........ removing bad objects, the game works fine...........

WalkingSnake
04-06-2005, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by Pumper
Thanks for the tips - tonight I'll begin desgining beyond micro-sized models, and simply zoom in big time while in the 3D design phase. :D

Or make them large and shrink them down when done. ;)

2005
04-06-2005, 08:58 PM
^thats what i do, but a warning for anyone using anim8or like me, anim8or dosn't always get the scaling right for some reason after you've joined solids. I doubt 3dmax has the same problem.

WalkingSnake
04-06-2005, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by 2005
^thats what i do, but a warning for anyone using anim8or like me, anim8or dosn't always get the scaling right for some reason after you've joined solids. I doubt 3dmax has the same problem.

Import it in to 3DS Max (Free trial download at discreet.com) and play with it. You can also export it to ASE with 3DS Max.

2005
04-06-2005, 09:02 PM
i thought 3d max was a really expensive program............I have access to it at university but not at home. I'll take a look tomorrow (its 2am here in the UK :) )

JCat
04-06-2005, 09:03 PM
W-Snake - since you're using 3D Max, mind if I ask a quick question? I'm use to using Milkshape, so I'm still in the "what the hell does this do" phase with Max. Is there any way to join multiple objects (I know the 'group' command didn't do it), so that Jonwil's program will understand it as a single model? Or does the editor still know it's multiple objects even if they're joined..? No where on Milshape have I found a way...so I was hoping Max had some type of option.


Thank you

jonwil
04-06-2005, 09:05 PM
for reference, a standard base block is (in 3DS max units), -2 to 2 in the x, 0 to 1 in the y and -2 to 2 in the z.

marnetmar
04-06-2005, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by 2005
I think walkingsnake is right (about something he posted earlier) that objects SHOULDN'T be released yet until more is known........ so far when installing objects, and the game crashes, removing the objects will undo the problem casuing the crash and let the game run normally,
at least from my expierince but that dosn't mean there isn't a chance objects could cause problems.

I accept that if i have to reinstall the game, then it happens, but i wouldn't want any of my objects to cause any probs (for other people)........Although so far it hasn't happened, and i've tried delibratly to make the game crash several times (you should do this to test any program) by putting unrealistic values in........ removing bad objects, the game works fine...........

I agree with that 100% I haven't had any problems with this new stuff crashing my game, but I certainly don't want something I made to crash anyone's game. I plan on testing it myself & getting a few others to test the new props before releasing anything to the public to use. I know how it feels to get something that someone else made & have it cause problems. Luckily it's only happened to me a few times & no major damage.

marnetmar
04-06-2005, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by Pumper
No where on Milshape have I found a way...so I was hoping Max had some type of option.


Thank you


Have you tried highlighting the entire wireframe of the model & going to the "Groups" tab on the right & then click on "Regroup"? That makes however many objects you have 1 object.

JCat
04-06-2005, 09:16 PM
Marn - yeah, that was the first thing I tried. I selected all - hit regroup so it became one object, then exported it out as an .OBJ to convert to ase. Got the "multiple objects can't mesh" error. I went in to the ase with notepad, and I believe it stilll showed all the seperate objects that made up one..... have you tried it yet? Unless I forgot to eliminate that root crap that moment? I'll give it another shot this evening (or if you do earlier, let me know) . Man if that regroup works, I'd be quite happy!

marnetmar
04-06-2005, 09:18 PM
It should work, that's how I did the cactus prop, I already regrouped it for use in UR & just removed the texture & changed it to an ase file ;)

JCat
04-06-2005, 09:19 PM
OK, now that's good news. When you exported it out of MS, what temporary file format do you normally use?

marnetmar
04-06-2005, 09:23 PM
I didn't change it, biturn recognizes the ms3d format & I just changed it to an ase from there & took out the "root" info.

JCat
04-06-2005, 09:25 PM
Oh right - yep, forgot Biturn recognizes MS - well, time to go nuts with it tonight. Tx! I need a nice block of un-frigging interupted time! I'd like to see what previously made UR props of mine will carry over.

marnetmar
04-06-2005, 09:26 PM
LOL Sounds great, Good Luck with it :up: :up: ;)

JCat
04-07-2005, 12:24 AM
A bit more progress tonight - was able to combine objects as one (thanks Marn). The volcano is an old prop I had which had an inside and outside mesh. The texture is not the original one I had, just a quick paint job, as this was basically a quickie experiment.
:)

http://www.trackworx.com/vtwins.jpg

2005
04-07-2005, 07:10 AM
volcanoe looks cool. Whats the easiest way of making an object like that hollow? I tried to make a hollow pyramid but its quite difficult.

DrMontigo
04-07-2005, 12:07 PM
Please corrct me if I'm wrong, but if the readme says you can't decompile or alter RCT3 doesn't that make custom scenery illegal? I MUST be wrong. Can someone set me straight on this one?

WalkingSnake
04-07-2005, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by DrMontigo
Please corrct me if I'm wrong, but if the readme says you can't decompile or alter RCT3 doesn't that make custom scenery illegal? I MUST be wrong. Can someone set me straight on this one?

We're not decompiling or altering RCT3 in any way. Simply adding files as they did in RCT2.

2005
04-07-2005, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by DrMontigo
Please corrct me if I'm wrong, but if the readme says you can't decompile or alter RCT3 doesn't that make custom scenery illegal? I MUST be wrong. Can someone set me straight on this one?


Even if it did, it wouldn't be a good idea to prevent people modifiying the game like this. its not for profit or anything like that. Frontier should encourage game mods - just look at quake, unreal, or the sims to see what mods do for a games reputation..........

JCat
04-07-2005, 01:04 PM
What the above two said..

I'm sure eventually Frontier will make some kind of expansion editor or easy to use importer to keep RCT3 going for ages. For now, I look forward to high quality expansions like "Soaked" - but in the meantime, it's fun to experiment with 'basic' model importing for personal use.

2005
04-07-2005, 01:42 PM
Frontier don't seem too keen to release any editor. Maybe it will happen, but it dosn't look likely.........

monkeygecko
04-07-2005, 02:23 PM
hi, perhaps I have the items in the wrong places?

I run, point to an ASE file,
point to an 8-bit 128x128 size BMP
name it SIOpaque

and click go,
it asks for "save ovl file..." filename
i use "obj1"

I get a popup ".. has generated errors and will be closed by windows."

?
I have all this in a seperate folder from all my other stuff and it's nowhere near RCT3, does it matter?
I'm keeping my objects/textures in a seperate directory from the program, is that a problem?

thanks.

WalkingSnake
04-07-2005, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by 2005
Frontier don't seem too keen to release any editor. Maybe it will happen, but it dosn't look likely.........

In interviews, Frontier seems pretty eager, actually, to release editors. However, they want to make expansion packs first priority.

2005
04-07-2005, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by monkeygecko
hi, perhaps I have the items in the wrong places?

I run, point to an ASE file,
point to an 8-bit 128x128 size BMP
name it SIOpaque

and click go,
it asks for "save ovl file..." filename
i use "obj1"

I get a popup ".. has generated errors and will be closed by windows."

?
I have all this in a seperate folder from all my other stuff and it's nowhere near RCT3, does it matter?
I'm keeping my objects/textures in a seperate directory from the program, is that a problem?

thanks.


no that shouldn't be a problem, i have folders all over the place. A bad .ase maybe?

WalkingSnake
04-07-2005, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by 2005
no that shouldn't be a problem, i have folders all over the place. A bad .ase maybe?

It's happened to me a few times, too. What object are you making?

marnetmar
04-07-2005, 05:15 PM
Great work on the volcano Pumper, I can't wait to see it with the other texture on it :up: :up: :up: :up: :up:




Here's a simple box model ase file for anyone that wants to try it out. It worked fine for me in making an ovl file.


Test Cube ase file (http://modstothemax.net/mttmcommunity/download.php?id=1330)

2005
04-07-2005, 05:39 PM
When we can add more than 1 texture will be when objects are more impressive...........

monkeygecko
04-07-2005, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by 2005
no that shouldn't be a problem, i have folders all over the place. A bad .ase maybe?

A sphere or a box. I created them in Form-Z and used a converter to turn 3ds into ASE

2005
04-07-2005, 07:28 PM
post the .ase is probably best. never heard of z-form.

look at the .3ds in anim8or (could be bad .3ds - a good file should import into any program) , but really the people to help you are jonwil and walking snake............

marnetmar
04-07-2005, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by 2005
When we can add more than 1 texture will be when objects are more impressive...........


I'm hoping that happens soon & I wish we were able to map the textures to the model the way we want them, before making the ase files. That would really be great.

Klinn
04-07-2005, 09:23 PM
>Whew< Iím back... Making a video of my coaster with the custom buildings took longer than expected.

http://www.designamatic.com/Graphics/RCT3-Elec07-Big.jpg


For more info and screenshots, check out this thread (http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=461885) over in the Exchange Forum, or click on the links below to watch the...


ElectroShock Coaster Video (http://www.designamatic.com/Movies/ElectroShockCoaster-Large.wmv) (55 MB)
Smaller Version of Video (http://www.designamatic.com/Movies/ElectroShockCoaster-Small.wmv) (32 MB)

http://www.designamatic.com/Graphics/RCT3-Elec08-Big.jpg


Once again, thanks to JonWil for creating his importer and opening up a whole new range of RCT3 creations!

RCT4me
04-07-2005, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by WalkingSnake
In interviews, Frontier seems pretty eager, actually, to release editors. However, they want to make expansion packs first priority.

It seems like they intend not to, since they really tried to make it hard to hack. (at least it seems like it)

WalkingSnake
04-07-2005, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by RCT4me
It seems like they intend not to, since they really tried to make it hard to hack. (at least it seems like it)

LOL! It's their game. I think they'd know how to make a scenary editor for it. :p

It's hard for US to hack it, but they have all of the original source code, etc. They can do it easily.

marnetmar
04-07-2005, 09:44 PM
Looks very cool Klinn, nice work on the models & the video, the music was a good choice for the video as well.

JCat
04-07-2005, 11:15 PM
I already said my piece in the exchange - Bravo Klinn!

Marn - making progress now - directories are all working like they should, and Ibrought in a number of objects last night, and they went through like a breeze...well, except for one. I don't know why once in a while, a particular model that came out of the same program, decides it doesn't want to play nice. LOL

marnetmar
04-07-2005, 11:51 PM
That's Great to hear Pumper :up: I've noticed that sometimes things go real smooth & other times, for no apparent reason they don't work. When that happens I've found the best thing is to just close everything & try again later, although that's hard to do sometimes lol

jonwil
04-08-2005, 06:27 AM
The game itself is not hard to hack.
The main problem is not knowing all the unknown fields in all the data structures.
And my lousy coding skills that mean adding things like multiple object support and multiple texture support are difficult for me.

I also lack the 3D skills to completly figure out some of the things (such as the complete BoneShape data and the BoneAnim data)

There are a few things (such as the possible issue with regard to names needing to be unique) that are a little bit of a problem but that is just an artifact of the way the engine works (I suspect that frontier might implement things differently if they make an editor)

2005
04-08-2005, 06:52 AM
what happened to an object exchange idea?

matty19908
04-08-2005, 07:23 AM
I've been reading this thread for ages and been trying to register and now i have :D :D :D, ive figured out your editor jonwill and got 2 scenery items to work :D thanks!!!



Pics Of Scenery (http://www.freewebs.com/matty19908/jonwillseditor.htm)

but when i place lamps near the objects they dont make the object brighter???

can anyone help.

matt

Klinn
04-08-2005, 12:36 PM
Hey, nice looking cactus, Marnetmar! Great texture that is wrapped around the mesh very nicely.

Pumper: About combining meshes into one object - in Max I select 'Compound Objects', then the 'Boolean' modifier and use the 'Union' option to combine them. There may be a better way, I'm not an expert in Max.

One trick I'm using with the compound objects: As you know, I'm having problems geting the correct texture vertex mapping out of Max. This problem becomes more obvious with compound objects since combining them creates additional subdivisions of a surface, e.g. where the 'ribs' meet the curved wall surface on my custom parts. As a result, the curved surface is no longer smoothly shaded. My trick to get around this is to place the ribs so they're floating a very small distance away from the wall. The two meshes don't actually have to touch in order to be combined into one compound object.

2005: About creating a hollow pyramid or other object - there are a couple of ways I can think of to do this in Max, maybe your Anim8or app has similar functions. First, when you create the pyramid shape, see if you can specify that the polys are two-sided. Then when you're inside, they will be textured instead of transparent.

That method gives you a 'wall' with no thickness. Another approach in Max is to use the 'Shell' modifier to basically create a second set of polys a specified distance away from the first, so the side 'wall' has some thickness to it - and twice as many polys. :) You can also specify if the bottom edges are capped, bridging the thickness from the outside face of the wall to the inside. Hopefully Anim8or has commands that might work the same basic way.

Matty19908: Are you using the 'SIOpaque' as the rendering style of the objects? That's what I've done and lights placed beside them will shine on them as expected. The 'SIUnlit' rendering style won't work, the game seems to treat that object as fully lit (not 'unlit') so there are no shadows along the surfaces.

2005
04-08-2005, 12:52 PM
I'll take a look at the manual. One way is to build blocks up into a box shape. its at the expense of a few extra polygons of course, but for a huge ride square building its not enough to worry about i think. Makes sure textures will show properly too and the blocks will show.

JCat
04-08-2005, 01:23 PM
Thanks Klinn -

I'm using the group command in Milkshape with success so all is working out nicely. Made a huge discover last evening-- on something people have been asking about. Decided to go full speed ahead with this project, which was originally a tech test, and now will be a full blown video ride-through. It's amazing what can be done....

2005
04-08-2005, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by Pumper
Made a huge discover last evening


want to share it?


Haven't looked at max yet, but although i could probably learn it, its not really needed. I don't think even with max i could make amazingly better objects anyway.

I think its good at least some people use more freely available tools becasue most people don't have access to max or any hope of figuring it out anyway.

jonwil might make a texture importer from .ase That could be a problem becasue texturing and converting so many times is going to cause problems for sure from anything else.

Jonwil if your reading this a way to add textures at the .ase/.ovl conversion stage is to me much better, using your own GUI of some sort maybe (liek we do now but with many textures).

Only max people are gonig to be able to add the texture in the model editor and be sure that it will look ok in rct3 if jonwil just makes his program convert from .ase to .ovl directly including textures.



Also the texturing in ani8or is pretty difficult to use so thats another reason. Remember although the most skilled modelers have max most people don't ; to be successful it needs to be available to anyone.

No doubt max is 100x better but few people have it.

JCat
04-08-2005, 01:47 PM
Let me work some kinks out - then I'll gladly let you know. I kind of don't want to ruin the surprise, and definitely don't want to prematurely post about it until I run some final tests.

JCat
04-08-2005, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by 2005


Also the texturing in ani8or is pretty difficult to use so thats another reason. Remember although the most skilled modelers have max most people don't ; to be successful it needs to be available to anyone.

No doubt max is 100x better but few people have it.

2005 - you should check out Milkshape - a few of us (Marnetmar and others) have been using it for a long time to make models for the Ultimate Ride series, etc.. I've used Anim8or and did not care for it, but for a free program, it's actually good for a lot of uses. Milkshape is $29.95 - but they have a 20-something day free period with all features working. I have Max as well, but don't need all the extra complexity - Milkshape does the job just fine. Basically, we're all just pulling in meshes anyway. Plus, if you have any questions on Milkshape, we can help you out.

http://www.swissquake.ch/chumbalum-soft/

2005
04-08-2005, 02:22 PM
i'll try it, but i'm not really sure i can afford it right now.

Ani8or is capable enough, it just has a confusing menu system.


I always thought of MS as just for quake models and stuff.

Zmodeler is used for a lot of games (used it for MM2) but i didn't like it, and its not not free anymore.

JCat
04-08-2005, 02:28 PM
Excatly, it's powerful, but for some reason, it is a bit confusing the way some functions are done.

2005
04-08-2005, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by Pumper
Let me work some kinks out - then I'll gladly let you know. I kind of don't want to ruin the surprise, and definitely don't want to prematurely post about it until I run some final tests.


whats this all about :)


Made a large object just now and it is placeable but dosn't show up.

I used standard siopaque. Same texture as i used for other objects. Same flags as before. the object is huge maybe there is a size limit?

JCat
04-08-2005, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by 2005
whats this all about :)


Made a large object just now and it is placeable but dosn't show up.

I used standard siopaque. Same texture as i used for other objects. Same flags as before. the object is huge maybe there is a size limit?

I've had that happen a few times at the beginning - - just redo from scrach (exit out of the editor - and even redo the conversion to ASE if you have to). Redo the secenery manager afterwards. I don't know what causes that to happen, but it did in the past and hasn't happpend since. I'm using pretty massive objects too (low poly-count, though) ..RCT3 doesn't seem to mind.

2005
04-08-2005, 02:58 PM
i got it to work - but new problem. there seems to be a max draw distance even when everything is set to full.

A bit anoying for ride buildings - you don't want an indoor ride where one wall just dissappears!!!

http://img23.exs.cx/img23/9063/untitled0in.jpg

Klinn
04-08-2005, 03:04 PM
The polys are probably just one-sided - you're looking at the 'back' of the ones far away, so you see right through them. On the inner wall (I assume that's what you're designing) see if there is a command to 'flip surface normals' or some terminology like that. The surface normal is what tells the renderer which side is textured. If you can flip them around, you'll see the wall from the inside.

Hope this helps...

jonrobo
04-08-2005, 03:07 PM
is it possible for someone to make a slightly dark square fot tunnels?

sorry if this has been mentioned

2005
04-08-2005, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by Klinn
The polys are probably just one-sided - you're looking at the 'back' of the ones far away, so you see right through them. On the inner wall (I assume that's what you're designing) see if there is a command to 'flip surface normals' or some terminology like that. The surface normal is what tells the renderer which side is textured. If you can flip them around, you'll see the wall from the inside.

Hope this helps...


yep found it anim8or has a tool for that.

But i wondered if its better to make a few small objects for the building
instead.

As you can see here no problems.

http://img189.exs.cx/img189/3125/untitled0xn.jpg

2005
04-08-2005, 03:44 PM
got it working

http://img11.exs.cx/img11/929/shot00677dj.jpg

Just need some decent textures!!!


getting the tunnel round the track is going to be tough i think.....might have to make it seperate

matty19908
04-08-2005, 04:01 PM
:cry: :cry: :cry: NOOOO my site has gone down, freewebs is turd, do any of you kno any free website makers similar to freewebs.. but it has to be a good site that allows alot of bandwidth so it doesnt close ma site down :cry: :cry: :cry:

Klinn: yeah i wrote SIOpaque but still no lights dont cause the objects to be lit up where light would be shining on them

2005
04-08-2005, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by jonrobo
is it possible for someone to make a slightly dark square fot tunnels?

sorry if this has been mentioned


what do you mean? the game already has black colour. If you mean they're aren't dark enough (lthey are sort of grey colour)for tunnels , then yes its possible probably not sure how it would look with the lighting.

also it'd only apply to one type of wall, although if your happy with the genric square wall its not really a problem.

Someone is probably already working on this.


I'll try making a dark ride with jet black texture see what it looks like. Surprising no one has tried this yet........



EDIT: i built a huge jet black cube it looks better with a coaster, but its still fully light in daytime, so you can easily see the track still. I got a sceen if you want. Other rides just look the same - its just the 'backdrop'.

rushfan
04-08-2005, 04:46 PM
great wotk we should start figureing out how to add new scenery catagorys to the game so we can make sets and exchange it you know and you guys are doing great

JCat
04-08-2005, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by 2005

I'll try making a dark ride with jet black texture see what it looks like. Surprising no one has tried this yet........
.

:haha: ;)

2005
04-08-2005, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by rushfan
great wotk we should start figureing out how to add new scenery catagorys to the game so we can make sets and exchange it you know and you guys are doing great

i think it might be possible to do that already, i don't know, i just find the scenery in the main menu (it always get placed at the bottom of the list).


Theres a problem with objects having the same name i think, i'm not sure the details.

There was disscussion on an exchange to number every object i think, not sure what happened.

I'm not sure if that applies to file names or scenery object names in game. The second could be an issue - how many " brickwall1" 's are there going to be? probably a lot! But i don't really know a lot about this. With no released onjects it dosn't matter now really.

2005
04-08-2005, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by Pumper
:haha: ;)


????

I knew the textures would still be fully lit, i just thought it might make a dark ride more realistic. it dosn't really, unless frontier change the game.

2005
04-08-2005, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by matty19908
:cry: :cry: :cry: NOOOO my site has gone down, freewebs is turd, do any of you kno any free website makers similar to freewebs.. but it has to be a good site that allows alot of bandwidth so it doesnt close ma site down :cry: :cry: :cry:

Klinn: yeah i wrote SIOpaque but still no lights dont cause the objects to be lit up where light would be shining on them

well for pics go to www.imageshack.us

heres the darkride for anybody thats interested:

http://img194.exs.cx/img194/8751/shot00719ju.jpg

JCat
04-08-2005, 06:25 PM
I was laughing, because that's one of the major features of a project we are working on. I figured this out yesterday - no light casting = a good thing.

2005
04-08-2005, 06:27 PM
hey whats with the secret??? :) :) :)

I could help with this.........


and 'we'?

marnetmar
04-08-2005, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by 2005
i think it might be possible to do that already, i don't know, i just find the scenery in the main menu (it always get placed at the bottom of the list).


Theres a problem with objects having the same name i think, i'm not sure the details.

There was disscussion on an exchange to number every object i think, not sure what happened.

I'm not sure if that applies to file names or scenery object names in game. The second could be an issue - how many " brickwall1" 's are there going to be? probably a lot! But i don't really know a lot about this. With no released onjects it dosn't matter now really.


That's something people will have to be careful of when naming their new stuff, each theme, prop, etc has to have a unique name so as not to conflict with anything else already in the game. I don't know about using numbers though, except maybe in your case 2005 lol For the stuff I've made for the UR game I usually used a couple of letters as a prefix for each prop to go with the Theme name.

2005
04-08-2005, 06:35 PM
everyone could be given a prefix (or suffix). (i got 2005 already its taken lol).

Seriously i mean like everyone takes a year 1900-1999 or something

with a database it could easy to trace the creators, and easy to warn people any creator who hasn't signed up for the database, don't d/l their objects, or d/l them at their own risk.

so like brickwall2005 or 2005brickwall

marnetmar
04-08-2005, 06:45 PM
I'll be using mnm as a prefix & possibly a couple of letters pertaining to the theme name + the prop name. I doubt anyone else would be using that lol

matty19908
04-08-2005, 07:29 PM
:rolleyes: can anyone help please, i write SIOpaque and it doesnt get lit by lamps, but then i use the jwtest object and write SIOpaque and it works, only my objects dont get lit, oh and can you also help and telling me how to make the object not get rotated, coz i made a tube goin along the floor and when i go into rct3 it is stood up :bulb: plz help:rolleyes:

matt

marnetmar
04-08-2005, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by matty19908
:rolleyes: can anyone help please, i write SIOpaque and it doesnt get lit by lamps, but then i use the jwtest object and write SIOpaque and it works, only my objects dont get lit, oh and can you also help and telling me how to make the object not get rotated, coz i made a tube goin along the floor and when i go into rct3 it is stood up :bulb: plz help:rolleyes:

matt

I don't know why the lights aren't working for your prop matty. As for your tunnel, you need to rotate the model you made. Look how it is now in your modeling program & imagine it's standing up like it is in the game & rotate the model so that it would be laying down in the correct position & redo the ase file & try it again & see how it looks.

marnetmar
04-08-2005, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by Klinn
Hey, nice looking cactus, Marnetmar! Great texture that is wrapped around the mesh very nicely.


Thanks Klinn, the texture didn't come out exactly like I had hoped, but most all of it looks real good. Are you able to map the textures in 3DS Max?

Tidus243
04-08-2005, 10:50 PM
thanks

Klinn
04-08-2005, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by marnetmar
Thanks Klinn, the texture didn't come out exactly like I had hoped, but most all of it looks real good. Are you able to map the textures in 3DS Max? Your textures look a lot better than I've been able to do in Max (there's a reason why my custom buildings were shot at night ;) ). I also noticed you got some nice sharp edges for those first boulders which is another thing I'm struggling with. I think I'll download the trial edition of Milkshape tomorrow and try a few objects. I'm sure there's a way of doing things properly in Max, but I'm no expert in that program.

A while back, I saw some messages in a forum about somebody, or maybe several somebodies, who started work on an ASE plugin for Milkshape. Unfortunately, I didn't pay too much attention to the posts - can't even remember what forum it was. So I don't know if they ever completed the project - maybe we should chain JonWil to his computer with a copy of the Milkshape SDK. :D :D :D

marnetmar
04-09-2005, 01:50 AM
Originally posted by Klinn
Your textures look a lot better than I've been able to do in Max (there's a reason why my custom buildings were shot at night ;) ). I also noticed you got some nice sharp edges for those first boulders which is another thing I'm struggling with. I think I'll download the trial edition of Milkshape tomorrow and try a few objects. I'm sure there's a way of doing things properly in Max, but I'm no expert in that program.

A while back, I saw some messages in a forum about somebody, or maybe several somebodies, who started work on an ASE plugin for Milkshape. Unfortunately, I didn't pay too much attention to the posts - can't even remember what forum it was. So I don't know if they ever completed the project - maybe we should chain JonWil to his computer with a copy of the Milkshape SDK. :D :D :D

I'm sure you'll like MilkShape Klinn, I don't know much about all the other programs, but it's pretty simple to use & there's a bunch of us at MTTM that use it. If you run into any problems or have any questions about it, feel free to ask & we'll get you fixed up.
They do have a couple of ASE plug-ins for MS, but they're for some other games & I'm not sure if they'll work for this or not & with Biturn we don't really need the plug-ins anyway lol
I'm hoping we can get Jonwil to add support for transparent textures & the ability to have more than 1 object per prop, we can really have some cool "goodies" then lol.

WalkingSnake
04-09-2005, 02:10 AM
w00t! 200th post in this topic. :D

...Sorry.. carry on.. ;)

matty19908
04-09-2005, 06:37 AM
marnetmar: i do have it lying down in the editor (3d studio max) but it wont lie down in rct3, do you think i could try standing it up in 3dsmax

matt

2005
04-09-2005, 06:58 AM
Originally posted by Pumper
I was laughing, because that's one of the major features of a project we are working on. I figured this out yesterday - no light casting = a good thing.


I was thinking about this yesteday, i'm still not sure what you mean.

But i thought of something - do you think unknown values 1-9 could be for lighting values? I mean like RGB values for lights. maybe with a 0,0,0 value you could make a black light. the other values could be ambient, diffuse, brilliance all that stuff.

http://img167.exs.cx/img167/1916/untitled9ga.jpg

http://img167.exs.cx/img167/1925/untitled4qu.jpg

Klinn
04-09-2005, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by 2005
The other values could be ambient, diffuse, brilliance all that stuff. At least some of those characteristics are defined by the rendering style you specify for the OVL file, e.g.:

SIFillZ
SIGlass
SIOpaque
SIOpaqueChrome
SIOpaqueChromeModulate
SIOpaqueGlossReflection
SIOpaqueGlossSpecular100
SIOpaqueGlossSpecular50
SIOpaqueReflection
SIOpaqueSpecular100
SIOpaqueSpecular100Reflection
SIOpaqueSpecular50
SIOpaqueSpecular50Reflection
SIOpaqueText
SIOpaqueUnlit

For the shiny, mildly reflective, metal-ish finish of my electrical posts I used SIOpaqueSpecular50Reflection. It's also great fun to try the SIGlass style! I made a big 'fishbowl' enclosure at one point :)

2005
04-09-2005, 09:46 AM
I'm going to try that.

But can the colour of lighting be changed?

tikitiki
04-09-2005, 10:33 AM
If any of you are having trouble meshing objects or appying textures just the right way send the file to me in a format that I can convert to an ase.

Thanks!

You can post it here or pm me

Cheers Tikitiki

marnetmar
04-09-2005, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by matty19908
marnetmar: i do have it lying down in the editor (3d studio max) but it wont lie down in rct3, do you think i could try standing it up in 3dsmax

matt


Yes matty, that's what I meant before, just rotate the model in 3ds max & then make a new ase file & you should be ok.

2005
04-09-2005, 03:51 PM
why does rct3 make objects upside down no matter how you roate them? how does it know? Is one part of an object defined as a having a fixed direction?

It only seems to do this sometimes......

WalkingSnake
04-09-2005, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by 2005
why does rct3 make objects upside down no matter how you roate them? how does it know? Is one part of an object defined as a having a fixed direction?

It only seems to do this sometimes......

It's never done that to me. Like I said before, the Y axis is up in RCT3. The Z axis is up in 3DS Max. So, in 3DS Max, turn your objects so that the top is towards the Y instead of the Z.

2005
04-09-2005, 04:34 PM
but i rotated it 180' and it was the same.

XopePoquar
04-09-2005, 04:54 PM
Then just rotate your moniter.

Klinn
04-09-2005, 04:59 PM
Heh-heh, that reminds me of the classic "How to take a screenshot" pic:


http://www.designamatic.com/Graphics/HowToTakeAScreenShot.jpg


Sorry JonWil, didn't mean for this go so far O/T. :)

2005 - if your object is symetrical about that axis, then rotating it 180 degees won't show any difference - try 90. ;)

2005
04-09-2005, 05:09 PM
no its not symetrical i'm not that stupid :)


up is always up even when its down. or something like that.

anyway its obvious in the model editor its right.

I might have to switch from anim8or anyway, it dosn't allow what they call boolean sections (cutting away surfaces with other objects, like you do with worldcraft). Which limits it a lot for what i want to make.



Then just rotate your moniter.

Theres always one.

Anyway its rotation relative to the other 3d objects not to me so it makes no sense!!



Sorry JonWil, didn't mean for this go so far O/T.

2005 - if your object is symetrical about that axis, then rotating it 180 degees won't show any difference - try 90.

lol

WalkingSnake
04-09-2005, 05:30 PM
You're rotating it 180 degrees on what axis?

Your_Name_Here
04-09-2005, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by Klinn
Heh-heh, that reminds me of the classic "How to take a screenshot" pic:
http://www.designamatic.com/Graphics/HowToTakeAScreenShot.jpg



:haha: that's great

2005
04-09-2005, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by WalkingSnake
You're rotating it 180 degrees on what axis?


up/down.

but its always upside down.

WalkingSnake
04-09-2005, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by 2005
up/down.

but its always upside down.

Try rotating it sideways, see if that makes any difference.

2005
04-09-2005, 05:43 PM
then it will be sideways

WalkingSnake
04-09-2005, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by 2005
then it will be sideways

Sometimes the game is weird, so you never know. :p

EDIT: You ARE re-making the OVL file each time, right?

2005
04-09-2005, 05:50 PM
i think so, it it did occur to me i might have made an accidental mistake, its possible. There are a lot of stages.


Can't wait until we can add many textures to each object.

Klinn
04-09-2005, 07:02 PM
Well... half the texturing works... :) Anybody need a brick sewer system???


http://www.designamatic.com/Graphics/RCT3-CustomWall03.jpg


Actually, since that model went from:
- exported from Max as *.3DS
- imported, rotated, and textured in Milkshape
- saved from Milkshape as *.ms3d
- converted with Biturn to *.ASE
- converted to OVL with JonWil's app

...I'm amazed anything showed up at all! :) :) Now I just have to experiment with texture scaling on various faces to see how that will work.

JCat
04-09-2005, 08:23 PM
Wow Klinn - That's spectacular (no not specular) LOL - great work. Yeah it is funny how this object went through the ringer with conversions and still wound up coming out excellent!

Have you (or anyone working at this) noticed that stacked custom items seem to have a small gap (space) in between them? I mean, you can close the gap by overlaping objects a bit, but then you get that flicker on the edges where the pieces are taking up the exactly same space.

marnetmar
04-09-2005, 09:31 PM
Very cool idea Klinn, that did turn out very well. :up: :up: I sent you a PM ;)

Klinn
04-09-2005, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by Pumper That's spectacular (no not specular) LOL Oh no, the attack of the 3D rendering puns has been unleashed! :) :) ;)

Have you (or anyone working at this) noticed that stacked custom items seem to have a small gap (space) in between them? I mean, you can close the gap by overlaping objects a bit, but then you get that flicker on the edges where the pieces are taking up the exactly same space. My custom wall and roof pieces fit together without any noticable gaps. I just made sure that when I created them, I had grid snap turned on so they turned out exactly the right height. (A standard RCT3 full height wall is 3 units high, the ground grid is 4x4 units in the 3D modelling package. When you move an item up with the Shift key, you are moving it exactly one unit.)

I am still getting some weirdness with shading - as opposed to texturing. Look at the bottom edge of that curved wall, it's darker than the rest. That's not in the texture, it's how the rendering is being done - or maybe how the texture mapping coords are not quite right yet. Compare that to a normal RCT3 wall under the same lighting conditions and you'll see it is evenly lit. Hmmmm, more mysteries to explore. :)

JCat
04-09-2005, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by Klinn

I am still getting some weirdness with shading - as opposed to texturing. Look at the bottom edge of that curved wall, it's darker than the rest. That's not in the texture, it's how the rendering is being done - or maybe how the texture mapping coords are not quite right yet. Compare that to a normal RCT3 wall under the same lighting conditions and you'll see it is evenly lit. Hmmmm, more mysteries to explore. :)

If you're referring to your recent object, it still looks amazing - I would have never noticed it darker on the lower edge - looks like shadow actually - which works out I guess. I don't know how you managed to get the smaller cylindric passageways mapped independently from the main structure (texture wise). You're saying you mapped it in MS? I thought Jonwil's program didn't understand textures made directly in the 3D program of choice? If you save a textured object with MS, it spits out an accompanying .tga texture - did you go in to the ASE after conversion and rename the reference from .tga to .bmp?

WalkingSnake
04-10-2005, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by Pumper
If you're referring to your recent object, it still looks amazing - I would have never noticed it darker on the lower edge - looks like shadow actually - which works out I guess. I don't know how you managed to get the smaller cylindric passageways mapped independently from the main structure (texture wise). You're saying you mapped it in MS? I thought Jonwil's program didn't understand textures made directly in the 3D program of choice? If you save a textured object with MS, it spits out an accompanying .tga texture - did you go in to the ASE after conversion and rename the reference from .tga to .bmp?

The whole object is the same texture... In some places, the texture appears smaller in some places, but it is all the same texture.

JCat
04-10-2005, 04:31 AM
Thanks, I do realize it's one texture, but that looks correctly mapped (not accidental luck) which has me scratching my head. :weird:

speile
04-10-2005, 07:19 AM
I was wondering, as i cant seem to get the install button on the editor to work, whether someone would be willing to help me by creating the files for me, I have all the files required in a zip file located at...

http://speile-design.i8.com/wall.zip

Its a wall, a sort of art deco style...

If this works ill be willing to make the models and textures for any custom objects you want. ( as long as its not too complex)

Thanks in advance

Klinn
04-10-2005, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by Pumper Thanks, I do realize it's one texture, but that looks correctly mapped (not accidental luck) which has me scratching my head. Heh, actually the correctly-textured portion was accidental luck. To control how the texture is stretched across different parts of the object involves adjusting the 'UV Mapping'. In Milkshape, I believe this is done through the Texture Coordinate Editor window, which I'm a little puzzled by at the moment. This in turn changes the texture verticies which are part of the *.ms3d file and then appear in the *.ase file. The weird TGA's that are generated I've just been ignoring (I think one of them is an alpha map, the other seems to be a default vertex paint map) and I just specify my bitmap texture file again when creating the OVL in JonWil's app.

The darker bottom edge is annoying when you start stacking the wall segments. It may have to do with my improper UV mapping coords, or maybe it's something built into the rendering engine and one of the mysterious flags controls it, or ?????

WalkingSnake
04-10-2005, 12:39 PM
Yeah, like Klinn showed, the UV mapping coordinates will work with the scenary editor.

matty19908
04-10-2005, 06:23 PM
is there any chance you could release a tutorial.

i want a tutorial so i kno wat *everything does that you kno so far, coz i cant seem to get my objects to be the right rotation, keeps goin on it side :mad: :mad: :mad:

thanks

matt

gdude335
04-10-2005, 07:43 PM
a turtoil would be very very very usfull to me and to alot of other ppl. Ive been following this thread since the beggining and this program looks very complicated. A step by step turtoil would be great.
Nice job by the way.

matty19908
04-10-2005, 08:53 PM
gdude plz learn to spell the word tutorial, its not a turtoil (deformed turtle) its T U T O R I A L, just helping

matt

marnetmar
04-10-2005, 10:00 PM
I'm sure someone will write a good tutorial in the near future, but right now there's still some issues to be worked out with the program & we don't know what other things will come up in the future that might need to be addressed. We're still plugging away with it & trying to figure things out as we go. The only advantage some of us have is in making models before, other than that, it's a new program for everyone.

Miss O
04-10-2005, 11:35 PM
Okay, so I thought I'd try my hand at this, since I use a 3d modeler (TurboCAD) for interior design renderings. That said, then, I created my wall, saved as a .3ds, converted to .ase with Biturn, deleted the part from the file as specified.

I opened RCT3Imp and clicked Edit | Create New Scenery OVL. I chose my .ase file, my bitmap, and entered SIOpaque. Clicked Save, planning to put the resulting files in my My Documents directory before trying to replace the game files, and got "rct3imp has generated errors..." error. I've checked every setting I can find. Biturn makes a decent picture of my object, my texture is Indexed Color and 8 bit in a 128x128 size (I used Photoshop).

Anyone have any idea what I can check to try to get this to work? I did determine that if I left in an extra } in the Biturn-generated .ase file, I got the error about the number of meshes, but it does show that the object is only 1 piece.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. :cry:

JCat
04-10-2005, 11:51 PM
Hiya -

OK, in the .ase file, make sure this is exactly what's deleted.


}
}
*GEOMOBJECT {
*NODE_NAME "root"
*NODE_TM {
*NODE_NAME "root"
*INHERIT_POS 0 0 0
*INHERIT_ROT 0 0 0
*INHERIT_SCL 0 0 0
*TM_ROW0 1.000 0.000 0.000
*TM_ROW1 0.000 1.000 0.000
*TM_ROW2 0.000 0.000 1.000
*TM_ROW3 0.000 0.000 0.000
*TM_POS 0.000 0.000 0.000
*TM_ROTAXIS 1.000 0.000 0.000
*TM_ROTANGLE 0.000
*TM_SCALE 1.000 1.000 1.000
*TM_SCALEAXIS 1.000 0.000 0.000
*TM_SCALEAXISANG 0.000

Make sure you're deleting both upper brackets as shown...
The bitmap sounds fine. I've been using 512 x 512 bmp in Adboe PhotoShop with no problems... indexed color and of course, it should say 256 colors when the texture is being saved in adobe.

Miss O
04-11-2005, 02:34 AM
First, thank you to all who have offered their assistance. I was able to make the .ovl file after importing the 3ds file into Milkshape. I reviewed someone's earlier-posted .ase file in order to determine that not all the data was being written about the file when converted from .3ds out of TurboCAD to .ase.

I took the two files I created (common and unique) and saved them over the no-hole, 3h wall bases in the spooky set. Unfortunately, this produced an error which closed RCT3, "No :svd for :sid". This is a new one to me, but if anyone can suggest what's going wrong, I would appreciate it.

Klinn, can I say that I'm staggeringly jealous that you managed not only to produce such a beautiful model, but also to correctly size and import it? :) Congrats, since I'm realizing now it's not an easy project in the least!

sahari
04-11-2005, 03:39 AM
Miss o,
Just curious. Why are u still trying to replace the scenary files. The new RCT3Imp editor supports creating new scenary files.

Miss O
04-11-2005, 06:17 AM
Sahari:

That would be because I'm a total idiot. I had to read everyone's posts like, 10 times, before I realized how idiotic I really was being. I created my new theme, and aside from getting the message that the texture wasn't true 512x512 a couple times before I checked the file, everything seemed to save and is now installed in the right place.

Now my only problem is that it doesn't seem to show up as an item in the game. I'm still working on that, but am very encouraged, given that I didn't get any program errors, and the game didn't crash when I started it.

I'm still open to suggestions on how to view this "masterwork" of mine, but in the meantime I'll run around trying to design some of the stuff I've been wanting in 3 that used to be in RCT2.

Once I can view, I suspect I'll be rolling like a ... well, rollercoaster!

Thanks again to everyone for their input, I'm very close.

Guybrush_47
04-11-2005, 08:23 AM
Does anyone have any requests for new models? Start simple please till i learn the program properly.

Could someone ask me a question, why did they use the Y axis as up???? Thats seems so silly.

I'm trying to think of some objects that are missing from the game and i can't seem to think of any...

I'll probably create some nice looking sci-fi esc fencing, maybe something looking a bit like that from Jurrassic Park. But after that put up a list and i'm sure some of us will do some of your requests. Someone a few pages back said something that is so true, this should be used for the whole community not just a select few. I'll be releasing everything i do to you guys, the lovely general public :P

live_the_thrill
04-11-2005, 08:24 AM
I cant do a thing on it, not even open it without causing problems, so would someone make those supports that were in RCT 2, the steep sided wooden 1 and that flat one, as I really miss them, as they were great to use on any ride. Would someone please make them again!! Im begging you, if you can to do it!

Guybrush_47
04-11-2005, 08:27 AM
Supply a few piccies, and we'll see what i can do :)

WalkingSnake
04-11-2005, 11:40 AM
make sure you're going to file>Install theme when done. :)

Klinn
04-11-2005, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by Miss O
...Unfortunately, this produced an error which closed RCT3, "No :svd for :sid". This is a new one to me...I saw that error back when I created an OVL, giving the object a particular name while making the OVL, and then I renamed the resulting *.common.ovl and *.unique.ovl files to something else before installing them. (this was back in the old 'replace existing items' phase of JonWil's Importer) Trouble was that the new filename did not match the internal name within the OVL file. So maybe you renamed the object when you used it to replace an existing Spooky item??

About the new objects not appearing, I haven't run into that, but I think further back in this thread when others were having that problem they restarted JonWil's Importer and rebuilt the OVL and/or theme files, and then the objects appeared normally. Sorry I can't give better suggestions...

Miss O
04-11-2005, 01:39 PM
Thanks Klinn, I think that's exactly what went wrong. I'm going to start from scratch with a new item, and if that gets all the way through the process, I'll post the results here.

I'm trudging through the process, but excited by the possibilities of this working!

2005
04-11-2005, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by Guybrush_47
[Someone a few pages back said something that is so true, this should be used for the whole community not just a select few. I'll be releasing everything i do to you guys, the lovely general public :P [/B]


that was me.

I suspect some people still hold back important information on some discoveries . I don't know why this - do they expect personal credit for it?

I think everyone should be given the chance and technology to make objects, and the best modlers will be those who make the most creative, detailed, FPs friendly models. Not those who think discovering stuff and not letting others use it will somehow make them better known or more popular.

Sad fact is, being too loud about this makes me unpopular and i don't get given any information either.

Jonwil made his program open source so clearly he did not intend this program for a few people to use.

WalkingSnake
04-11-2005, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by 2005
that was me.

I suspect some people still hold back important information on some discoveries . I don't know why this - do they expect personal credit for it?

I think everyone should be given the chance and technology to make objects, and the best modlers will be those who make the most creative, detailed, FPs friendly models. Not those who think discovering stuff and not letting others use it will somehow make them better known or more popular.

Sad fact is, being too loud about this makes me unpopular and i don't get given any information either.

Jonwil made his program open source so clearly he did not intend this program for a few people to use.

I don't know who said that it shouldn't, but I think alot of people aren't releasing objects yet because they'd rather work on getting all of the bugs out of the program first.

Klinn
04-11-2005, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by 2005
I suspect some people still hold back important information on some discoveries .Really? I think the people actually actively using the Importer are sharing their discoveries as they are going. There have been a couple who have arrived blowing their trumpets in various threads, then are never heard of again, but I don't think that's because they are holding anything back. More likely it's just because they can't figure out how to make it work. At least, they certainly haven't showed any actual example results of their efforts in RCT3.

My 2 cents - ignore conspiracies (real or imagined) and just concentrate on learning and having fun. :) You can't change anybody else's behaviour, but worrying about it takes away valuable modelling time! :D

Miss O
04-11-2005, 04:36 PM
I tried from scratch and I'm still not getting my item to show (or I'm looking in the wrong place). Everything seemed to go just fine, I encountered no errors. I followed this process:

1. Wall design in TurboCAD, save as .3ds
2. Opened .3ds in Milkshape, assigned the texture (PianoWall.bmp, 128x128, 256 color) to the entire shape; saved as ms3d file.
3. Opened Milkshape file in Biturn, converted to .ase. Removed the proper bit from the resulting file (you guys rock for figuring that little trick out!).
4. Opened RCT3Imp and clicked Edit | Create New Scenery ovl; set ase, texture and texture style, saved ovl files.
5. In the Texture Manager I added two files: PianoWall (the wall texture) and O_Icon (the boring crap graphic).
6. To the icon manager, I made a sacrificial graphic in 8 bit bmp called O_Icon. Didn't do any texture here, just black and white. Set top/left/bottom/right to 1 and saved.
7. Added Text String named ola_PianoWall and with text "Piano-Window Wall"
8. Edited Scenery Settings:
OVL Name: pianowall.common.ovl
Group Icon: O_Icon
Scenery Icon: O_Icon
Location within theme: WallSets
Cost: 12
Refund: 8
Group Name String: ola_PianoWall
Scenery Name String: ola_PianoWall
Position: 0,0,0
Scenery Type: Wall Straight
Size: 1,1,1
Supports Type: Non
Size in squares: 1,1
Size Flag: Wall
Extra Parameters: None
Set all unknowns to 1
9. Clicked Spooky, named the theme Ola_Custom, did File | Save theme and saved to my My Documents file.
10. Clicked File | Install Theme. The Theme appears as Ola_Custom in the RCT Style\Themed directory, and within that directory is a file called WallSets with common and unique ovl files.

So ladies and gentlemen, what in the heck am I missing? I don't see my files anywhere in the game, and I expanded walls for both spooky themes. Help? :sulk:

P.S. Yes, I'm working on a tutorial. Of course, I have to have a working file to make that happen, but.. :)

WalkingSnake
04-11-2005, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by Miss O
I tried from scratch and I'm still not getting my item to show (or I'm looking in the wrong place). Everything seemed to go just fine, I encountered no errors. I followed this process:

1. Wall design in TurboCAD, save as .3ds
2. Opened .3ds in Milkshape, assigned the texture (PianoWall.bmp, 128x128, 256 color) to the entire shape; saved as ms3d file.
3. Opened Milkshape file in Biturn, converted to .ase. Removed the proper bit from the resulting file (you guys rock for figuring that little trick out!).
4. Opened RCT3Imp and clicked Edit | Create New Scenery ovl; set ase, texture and texture style, saved ovl files.
5. In the Texture Manager I added two files: PianoWall (the wall texture) and O_Icon (the boring crap graphic).
6. To the icon manager, I made a sacrificial graphic in 8 bit bmp called O_Icon. Didn't do any texture here, just black and white. Set top/left/bottom/right to 1 and saved.
7. Added Text String named ola_PianoWall and with text "Piano-Window Wall"
8. Edited Scenery Settings:
OVL Name: pianowall.common.ovl
Group Icon: O_Icon
Scenery Icon: O_Icon
Location within theme: WallSets
Cost: 12
Refund: 8
Group Name String: ola_PianoWall
Scenery Name String: ola_PianoWall
Position: 0,0,0
Scenery Type: Wall Straight
Size: 1,1,1
Supports Type: Non
Size in squares: 1,1
Size Flag: Wall
Extra Parameters: None
Set all unknowns to 1
9. Clicked Spooky, named the theme Ola_Custom, did File | Save theme and saved to my My Documents file.
10. Clicked File | Install Theme. The Theme appears as Ola_Custom in the RCT Style\Themed directory, and within that directory is a file called WallSets with common and unique ovl files.

So ladies and gentlemen, what in the heck am I missing? I don't see my files anywhere in the game, and I expanded walls for both spooky themes. Help? :sulk:

P.S. Yes, I'm working on a tutorial. Of course, I have to have a working file to make that happen, but.. :)

Hmm.. weird. Maybe jonwil will post with his solution later.