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JCat
06-24-2005, 04:54 PM
http://www.trackworx.com/SteelWorx Logo.jpg

READ ME FIRST

First, let me just say, this was a nasty set to work with, due to non-standard placement (unlike walls and roofs). I did as many supports as I could before burn out, and not every single coaster was tested with each support, so you may have to tinker with the various styles to see what worx! I tried to align supports the best I could, but there are many variables involved with the different coaster types, so don't expect to cover every inch of track with a perfect fit.

Don't forget! Many SteelWorx parts work well with the existing RCT3 scenery, which further expands the architectural possibilities!



You can download either the Automatic Installer, or the Zip file at:
www.trackworx.com

T-rct
06-24-2005, 05:03 PM
ey nice m8!!
Cant wait :D
Show the screens :D

ytivarg
06-24-2005, 05:26 PM
mmm... supports.... *drool*

I want some serious, big fat B&M supports! ;)

sfmmFREAK
06-24-2005, 05:50 PM
That idea sounds awfully familliar, lol.
http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=476435
i don't mind. can't wait to see.

JCat
06-24-2005, 05:57 PM
Thanks - never saw this thread - but it's a good one! I actually thought of this after seeing 2005's early support pics. He had some fine sample pre-built supports for a suspended coaster.

These are individual pieces (straight, diagonal, angled and so on), some in various sizes so you can kind of stack and design to your heart's content. Don't expect super details, as I want to keep the frame rate happy - these are simple beams square/round styles which we'll make for some interesting designs. Also, they can be used for other things of course - I made a 'beamish' coaster station sample in minutes (thanks to the upgraded scenery saver which is now great for repetitive tasks).

Your_Name_Here
06-24-2005, 06:04 PM
Thank god, someone is finally going to make some supports! :D I'm sure it'll be a great addition to the game! :up:

T-rct
06-24-2005, 06:28 PM
And and and
Screens? :D
Do you got screens? :D

Witward
06-25-2005, 12:52 AM
CANT WAIT TO SEE WHAT YA GOT been wanting custom supports for long long time

JCat
06-25-2005, 02:53 AM
06/25 First Screens now up (first message).

Your_Name_Here
06-25-2005, 03:01 AM
Sweet! But I do hope that the supports are more at an angle like / instead of straight up. Especially for the turns/helixes. It'd be more realistic that way. :up:

JCat
06-25-2005, 03:09 AM
Tnx - Working on it - that's where some of the alignment problems (mentioned) are right now. I already have a thick angled support sample (not in pic) as a test model, but was only able to properly align it on certain curves on a test coaster. Various sized curves and different heights seem to pose a problem with trying to align the same piece, and stacking diagonal poles is quite a nightmare - though at least I'm getting closer to getting the diag-stacking figured out.

Tidus243
06-25-2005, 06:31 AM
Can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

marnetmar
06-25-2005, 12:36 PM
Looks great so far Pumper :up: :up: Good Luck with the diagonal stacking, that sounds like a bit of a nightmare.

TheSkipper
06-25-2005, 01:11 PM
Kewl Beanz!:up:

CK the Fat
06-25-2005, 03:55 PM
Just adds to the realism. There are many times when I wish I could add some supports back in when it says to take them out.

Your_Name_Here
06-25-2005, 04:33 PM
Wow, those helix supports are perfect! Amazing! :)

-[A.S] Fanie-
06-25-2005, 07:52 PM
Lol im sure GiveTM_a_chance would like those Nintendo scenery objects ;)

Vodhin
06-26-2005, 10:36 AM
Pumper- Could you try to make lifthill elements: Vertical supports with catwalk, chain return, and emergency exit ladder (+cage?) or stairs (could just be ramp sections with texturemap steps). I know there's another modder out there making some- haven't re-located that thread... Mayby you guys can get together and make one complete set? Just an idea...

Witward
06-26-2005, 10:52 AM
Thats a good idea Vodhin. I would really like to see a straite up supports theme, catwalks and everything,cool.

GiveTM_a_chance
06-26-2005, 12:37 PM
Lol im sure GiveTM_a_chance would like those Nintendo scenery objects
Yes I really love them. I will use them for my park surely. Good work Pumper.
BTW Pumper Ive send you a PM, have you read it?

NitrousOxide
06-26-2005, 12:51 PM
Dude, these are kick ass! Custom Supports have been the only thing holding me back from playing RCT3.

WalkingSnake
06-27-2005, 03:44 PM
Can't wait. Very nice looking. :)

LightWarriorK
06-27-2005, 03:56 PM
Very cool!:)

I think this is probably going to be the best we're going to get. The only thing better would be a node system that would require Frontier to code it in.

Until that happens, though, I'm more than happy to use these.:up:

JCat
06-27-2005, 04:10 PM
Thanks all -

This is proving to be a ton more complicated then I thought. No fear though, it's progressing little by little. The problem is: The supports are nothing like everything else in the game. I've been studying the layout on the built in Frontier supports; their bases vary on the grid square, making numerous combinations for the same damn thing.

For example: The bank supports (those upsidedown V shaped ones). If I make one set - they'll fit certain banks on coasters, yet, won't fit other banks. So, I have to make about 4 different types so we can get them all in there. By the way, those supports were made super long, so all you have to do is shift to raise them out of the ground to meet varied heights (that's why there's no base plates).

Another example: The smaller track rides, like the mouse, and family coaster - those use different heights incriments then the big steel coasters, so I had to make a new set of smaller steel tubes (2 different heights just for these type of coasters). The list goes on, but i know, in the end, this is going to be the largest set to date - (no choice) and will have an instruction manual. After I finish the bank set, I have to figure out how to make specialized supports for some of the elements like the corkscrew and loop, THEN on to the inverted steel coasters.

After the supports are complete, I'll see if I can make a diagonal stack-able steps for the lift hills.

Your_Name_Here
06-27-2005, 04:17 PM
sounds super complicated. :eek:


I have a suggestion on the "no base for the supports" thing. Perhaps you should just make one base and we can add it to the supports? It only has to be like a rectangular box like the ones in the game.

Beli
06-27-2005, 04:21 PM
Pumper...

All I can say is... Thank you! Between you, Caffeen, and the rest of the modders out there, we are getting the small things that Frontier has not been able to give us yet.

I'm glad someone is able to work on these things, as I am not graphicly gifted, and this type of coaster structure is needed to give a better amount of realism to the parks.

Thank you again, to all the modders, and keep up the good work!

JCat
06-27-2005, 04:24 PM
YNH, yep, that was one of the plans - it will have to be a number of base plate positions. If you look at the base plates now in the game, you'll see that they are all on different parts of a standard grid square. Some are in corners, some in the dead center, and others on the sides. :bulb::cry:

ytivarg
06-27-2005, 06:20 PM
Pumper, regarding the slight height differences with the tracks....

Couldn't you make the connection to the track a little fatter? Lemme see if I can explain what I'm thinking.... an upside-down shaped L support. The bottom of the L (now the top since it's upside down) would connect to the track. If that piece is slightly fatter, and without collision detection, wouldn't it just merge into the track? Rides with a slightly higher track level would just touch the support, lower tracks would merge into the support...

I'm just throwing out ideas here... feel free to shoot it down. ;)

JCat
06-27-2005, 07:46 PM
ytivarg - good suggestion -- I was thinking something similar but because I have no L shaped supports yet (definitely making those) I haven't been able to try that experiment. Thank you for that -- (me shoot down suggestions? no way, any help to make things easier is always welcomed!).

The difficult area more then the various heights is the placement - distance (how far the track is from the support). You have 3 types of curves, so something like an L or standard thick tube-shaped support may work on all curves at various heights correctly, but getting them to join (horizontally speaking) is the next big problem. Because the supports jump around on grids like walls or roofs do, they'll work perfectly on one curve, then you try adding the same support to a smaller or larger curve, and you either get a support completely cutting through the track which looks horrendous, or one with a huge gap almost a grid box way from the track.

In any case, I'll have some more sample shots tonight.... as it's starting to take shape.

NitrousOxide
06-28-2005, 03:42 AM
If you need any testers I would be more than happy to check them out :haha: sintheticmusic@yahoo.com ;)

Willyfan2bibi
06-28-2005, 05:51 AM
Great idea!

JCat
06-28-2005, 09:50 PM
6/28
------
Some more screen shots with newly added supports. Now working on thick angled tubing for loops. More to come soon...

http://www.trackworx.com/sup1.jpg

http://www.trackworx.com/sup2.jpg

http://www.trackworx.com/sup3.jpg

JCat
06-28-2005, 09:51 PM
6/28 Continued....

http://www.trackworx.com/sup4.jpg

http://www.trackworx.com/sup5.jpg

http://www.trackworx.com/sup6.jpg

Your_Name_Here
06-28-2005, 09:53 PM
sweet, looking forward to the loop supports your cookin up.

:) :up:

WalkingSnake
06-28-2005, 10:04 PM
I have one nitpick, the supports look to "clean." Look at the supports in-game. They have a little bit of a texture to them. These look like a solid color.

Otherwise, they look perfect. :D

JCat
06-28-2005, 10:10 PM
Thanks - I understand what you mean, but most supports I've seen have a clean shiny finish ( solid paint on steel unless they're dirty) :haha: - personally I don't like the textured support look of the standard RCT3 set. In addition, they are glossy and reflect the time of day nicely - so they're not just lifeless single color. ;)

ytivarg
06-28-2005, 10:15 PM
The A-Frame supports for both the hyper and the invert look amazing, Pumper... I cannot WAIT to use those. I could also see using the invert's A-Frames underneath a standard track (Floorless/Standup/Twister).. especially for lift sections. The L-shaped supports on the Invert look like they worked out well, too. I gotta be honest with you, though.. the other ones are just... enh. I'm sure I could use them in some way or another, but they just don't have the "Wow! I WANT THAT!" factor as the others.

Keep it up, though.... those B&M supports look incredible!

tikitiki
06-28-2005, 10:23 PM
Amazin!

I'd be glad to help, if you want me to do any custom supports!

JCat
06-28-2005, 10:24 PM
Thank you - the other ones are just beam "pieces" not individual whole supports like the A / L frames. Those beams are for constructing what you want or if needed to make certain connections (cosmetic dressing if you will). You may appreciate them more in the game - I just knotted some stuff together for quick samples. They're also good for other scenery purposes.

tikitiki
06-28-2005, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by Pumper
Thank you - the other ones are just beam "pieces" not individual whole supports like the A / L frames. Those beams are for constructing what you want or if needed to make certain connections (cosmetic dressing if you will). You may appreciate them more in the game - I just knotted some stuff together for quick samples. They're also good for other scenery purposes.

You know what, they should include a pipes pack, which peeps could also use for supports!

coasterfreak00
06-28-2005, 10:25 PM
AWESOME!!!

JCat
06-28-2005, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by tikitiki
You know what, they should include a pipes pack, which peeps could also use for supports!

That woud be cool, if it ever were to happen. In the meantime, you have tubes and beams (corner, wall and center spots) to screw around with if you want to do some crazy type of non-standard support.

tikitiki
06-28-2005, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by Pumper
That woud be cool, if it ever were to happen. In the meantime, you have tubes and beams (corner, wall and center spots) to screw around with if you want to do some crazy type of non-standard support.

that would be the easy stuff...The only problem I'd have is actually exporting it, Because my program currently only supports .pov exports...And I thing I miss-placed the only program I spent days looking for, that'll convert to .ase properly :(

Cheers!

shyguy
07-06-2005, 07:34 PM
So, how's it going on the supports pack? If I may add a request...how about simple porch supports just like the one's in the western theme pack, but without collision detection.

If the M Brookes cheat worked on these, they wouldn't be needed, but for some reason it only works on solid walls.:sulk:

JCat
07-06-2005, 07:42 PM
Shouldn't be a problem, Shyguy - in fact, I think one of the supports I have now kind of takes on the similar approach to those western building supports, if not, I'll work it in for you. Most of the single piece supports can be used for a variety of things, besides coasters.

As far as progress, I'm currently finishing off a lift hill "Catwalk" for both angle styles, then on to a mid course break platform. There's still a few more supports left to do as well.

Your_Name_Here
07-06-2005, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by shyguy
So, how's it going on the supports pack? If I may add a request...how about simple porch supports just like the one's in the western theme pack, but without collision detection.

If the M Brookes cheat worked on these, they wouldn't be needed, but for some reason it only works on solid walls.:sulk:

Until this pack comes out, you could always use caffinated's I letter in his letter pack. It works pretty good, you can just use two of them and it's like its the scaffolding!:)

shyguy
07-06-2005, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by Your_Name_Here
Until this pack comes out, you could always use caffinated's I letter in his letter pack. It works pretty good, you can just use two of them and it's like its the scaffolding!:) I tried that, but I didn't like the look. They don't line up under the edge of the porch, either.

Pumper...Cool. Thanks! I figured that wasn't a difficult request. They'll work great for covered queue areas, too.

marnetmar
07-06-2005, 09:36 PM
Excellent progress my friend :up: :up: :up:

Coaster_Phantom
07-07-2005, 01:45 PM
How about Top Thrill Dragster-ish supports

http://www.thrillnetwork.com/albums/album01/tall.jpg

http://www.controlyou.com/topthrill.jpg


The supports you made are going to be a real addition to the game :D

RCT4me
07-07-2005, 01:50 PM
Some of those supports look odd, unable to hold up the track. Some others just don't look that realistic.

JCat
07-07-2005, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by RCT4me
Some of those supports look odd, unable to hold up the track. Some others just don't look that realistic.

Well, then, basically stick with the original 'realistic' supports that come with RCT3. Or even better, take a shot at designing your own.

SilverSky
07-07-2005, 02:08 PM
Exactly. These are superb! I can't wait until these are realeased. Well done! Do you think footers would be possible? That would be even more amazing! Not that it isn't already.

Well done,

SilverSky

JCat
07-07-2005, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by SilverSky
Exactly. These are superb! I can't wait until these are realeased. Well done! Do you think footers would be possible? That would be even more amazing! Not that it isn't already.

Well done,

SilverSky

Thank you SS -

Most of the supports are extremely long, because they have to continously rise from the ground (shift key) in order to meet the various heights while others have to have a continuous stack - so there's no footers on the actual bases due to tons of height differences. There will be set of seperate footers that can be placed on certain supports though - the ones that conform to standard spots on the grid (center and four corners).

Milkdud
07-07-2005, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by Coaster_Phantom
How about Top Thrill Dragster-ish supports
http://www.controlyou.com/topthrill.jpg

I rode that!!!! :D :D :D (Sorry for going off topic)

Pumper, these supports look super-fantasic! Really great job so far! Are the white ones you made for the giga coaster supposed to mimic Millenium Force? If so, GREAT! :D

JCat
07-07-2005, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by Coaster_Phantom
How about Top Thrill Dragster-ish supports

The supports you made are going to be a real addition to the game :D

Those are defintely planned- I already started on the center beam work for that. Those screen shots angles are helpful, thank you.

Milkdud thank you: Lucky you! I've yet to get on that or Kingda Ka (have to get up the guts). LOL I bet the first time it's horrifying before the launch..

That white beam work was just sometihng I threw together roughly out of single beams - I was thinking of Magnum with its cube work of beams (though the shape I composed is not really the same).

RCTMaNiAc255
07-07-2005, 02:35 PM
:eek: those supports are great!Wonderfull work. :eek:

Coaster_Phantom
07-07-2005, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by Pumper
Those are defintely planned- I already started on the center beam work for that. Those screen shots angles are helpful, thank you.

Great! :D You're the best!

Small Print
07-07-2005, 03:29 PM
they look great, exceprt 1 thing, they look a bit thin and flimsy, all the coasters ive seen in real life (which most are B&M coasters) have supports like giant tree trunks (really big and thick). Also how about this support on GREAT BEAR at HERSHYPARK.
http://www.rcdb.com/ig468.htm?picture=8
Great Stuff btw:D :up: :up: :up:

Your_Name_Here
07-07-2005, 04:06 PM
Can you do some of these supports for inversions? The supports we have in the game right now are crap.

http://www.rcdb.biz/p/picmax/hersheypark/sooperdooperlooper5.jpg
http://www.rcdb.biz/p/picmax/busch-gardens-tampa/python3.jpg
http://www.rcdb.biz/p/picmax/busch-gardens-tampa/scorpion17.jpg


That would be cool if you could make those! :D

-MoNtU
07-07-2005, 04:08 PM
Maybe some wood supports too.....?

Small Print
07-07-2005, 04:10 PM
this is off topic, but can sum1 please tell me how to put images directly into a thread? its doin my head in:mad: . Thx for any help:D

ytivarg
07-07-2005, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by Pumper
Those are defintely planned- I already started on the center beam work for that. Those screen shots angles are helpful, thank you.

Milkdud thank you: Lucky you! I've yet to get on that or Kingda Ka (have to get up the guts). LOL I bet the first time it's horrifying before the launch..

That white beam work was just sometihng I threw together roughly out of single beams - I was thinking of Magnum with its cube work of beams (though the shape I composed is not really the same).

Heh, I rode Dragster about 1,000 times... but, then again.. working on the ride all last summer and getting to test ride every morning kinda helped to up my count ;)

I'm glad you're making a recreation of the strata supports. I absolutely hate the fact that over 400 feet of track is being supported by two straight beams. ;)

Here's a couple more pics, hopefully they'll help you out, Pumper! Are you planning on working in the funky angled supports for the track twists? The support angles the same way for either the up or down side, as you can see in these two pictures... but for other incarnations of the ride, you might wanna have a mirror image of the support.

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/774/dragstertower6us.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/4618/goldtraincomingdown0ey.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)
Click to view at original image dimensions... just didn't wanna throw these huge images into the thread... and, I did not take the second picture from the top of the tower, employees know better than to whip out a camera on that ride! :D

Phantom523
07-07-2005, 04:35 PM
Talk about a great addition to the game! This is going to be a "must have" download for sure! :up:

live_the_thrill
07-07-2005, 04:41 PM
Speaking of the wooden supports, I want the old ones back, like the ones in RCT 3 at angels with all the support beams, a must download.

Plokoon11
07-07-2005, 09:50 PM
Very good work Pumper, I enjoy your creations! I cant wait intil this is downloadable!

RCTMaNiAc255
07-08-2005, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by Tmul
Maybe some wood supports too.....?

Yea that would be great cause the ones of RCT3 suck,they look like metal.. :sulk:

WalkingSnake
07-08-2005, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by RCTMaNiAc255
Yea that would be great cause the ones of RCT3 suck,they look like metal.. :sulk:

I thought the Wood textures in-game are some of the best looking in the game..

larry241
07-08-2005, 12:45 PM
I think he's referring to the crossmembers in the basic colored walls section. It's smooth and lighter in color than the wood stuff in the western theming.

JCat
07-10-2005, 10:27 PM
More supports added, including smaller loop
http://www.trackworx.com/supp4.jpg
Another size support specifically for the larger loop :confused:
http://www.trackworx.com/supp5.jpg
Horizontal platform (good for brake areas).
http://www.trackworx.com/supp2.jpg
Catwalk (2 color- customizable) shown on one side with floorless coaster.
http://www.trackworx.com/supp3.jpg

JCat
07-10-2005, 10:28 PM
Another Horizontal platform shot - (strata taken with no supports intensionally).
http://www.trackworx.com/supp1.jpg
Inverted coaster shown with catwalk + Inverted Platform
http://www.trackworx.com/supp6.jpg
Comparison shot
http://www.trackworx.com/before.jpghttp://www.trackworx.com/after.jpg

Your_Name_Here
07-10-2005, 10:32 PM
Awesome! I can't wait until you put this up for download, I can't wait much longer!!!!! :D :D :eek: :eek: :eek: :up: :up: :D :D

Milkdud
07-10-2005, 10:35 PM
Omg the catwalks and horizontal platform for break runs look amazing!!!!! And so do the supports in the first two shots. WAY realistic! Superb! The textures are perfect as well.

wickedfan07
07-10-2005, 10:50 PM
Amazing! Very realistic looking. Nice catwalks as well.

I understand this is a huge undertaking but I do have a question. Are you planning on making supports for under the left hill as shown in these pictures of Steel Force at Dorney Park?

http://www.rcdb.com/ig276.htm?picture=3
http://www.rcdb.com/ig276.htm?picture=8
http://www.rcdb.com/ig276.htm?picture=18

Thanks,
wickedfan07

FreeBoarder
07-10-2005, 11:00 PM
lovin the catwalks, something they should have hand in the first 2. can't wait to download

ytivarg
07-10-2005, 11:10 PM
<drooling>

I want.

I want now!

Plokoon11
07-10-2005, 11:10 PM
When is it coming OUT I CANT WAIT!

marnetmar
07-10-2005, 11:20 PM
Fantastic work on the catwalks, platforms & new supports Pumper :up: :up: :up:

Rybo-XL
07-10-2005, 11:42 PM
Awsome Pumper!

Sawyer
07-11-2005, 08:09 AM
Thats just wow !

And rough date for the reslise i dont mean to sound pushy but they are amazing :up:

mini_shima
07-11-2005, 08:15 AM
truely fantastic. Never realised till I seen this thread how much I want them!:eek: Keep up the good work:up:

satriales
07-11-2005, 08:18 AM
That 'Before and After' shot really shows how bad RCT3 supports are. I look forward to this :up:

Jamie P
07-11-2005, 08:24 AM
Must



...



have



...


this



...



now!

Teirmose
07-11-2005, 08:28 AM
http://img40.echo.cx/img40/6476/woohoo2fp.gif

Those are awesome. I hope you will make them available soon.

http://img40.echo.cx/img40/1084/cazbravo5fj.gif

Sprog2
07-11-2005, 08:32 AM
I love the inverted coaster catwalk, i've always wanted catwalks in RCT so you make decent coaster recreations! This looks amazing, can't wait for these....
I already have both Blox and Darkride sets, and I can tell these are going to be amazing as I can see your getting better and better at modelling and stuff as you create each set!
These are amazing! (how many times have i said that?! :D )

live_the_thrill
07-11-2005, 08:52 AM
YES, YES! THis rocks! Ive been waiting for supports like these for ages, now they are finnaly here, brillant! These can be used for everything! Thank you so much, and I cant wait for the download!

striker-T
07-11-2005, 09:35 AM
:eek: :eek: :eek:

Whooooooow !!
the catwalks are totaly nice whoooow
and the support nice job whoow :eek: :eek:

T-rct
07-11-2005, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by Your_Name_Here
Awesome! I can't wait until you put this up for download, I can't wait much longer!!!!!

^
Cant wait man i need this so much and others to! (When can whe expect a download? :D ) :cool: :D

uncle_adolph
07-11-2005, 01:07 PM
Yay!

I been constantly nagging and getting on people's nerves going on about custom supports! This is great!!

Would it be possible for me to be a beta tester for them? :p

Email: rollercoasterben@lecuckoo.me.uk

-Ben

Klinn
07-11-2005, 01:11 PM
That's a pretty impressive set you're creating, Pumper - so many variations in track layout that you are accommodating very nicely. I know essentially zero about the design of real-life coaster supports, but going by the enthusiasm shown in this thread, you've nailed it! The textures on the catwalk and flat platform add an nice extra level of detail. If we can eventually do transparent textures, the catwalk will look even cooler!

joffy
07-11-2005, 02:02 PM
Wow they look great, well done.
Is it possible to turn off supports for individual coasters in the game?

I'd like to use the supports on the steel coasters etc but rebuilding supports for woooden coaster would be a pain!

JCat
07-11-2005, 03:53 PM
Thank you for the 'support' :haha: seriously though, thanks for the comments.

OK, let's see:

joffy: Unfortunately, when you turn off supports, it turns them off for all coasters, so there's no way around this. The supports provided are for steel coasters, perhaps I can add a wood texture to the mix, but I can't guarantee it as that's a whole 'nother array of supports). One good thing -- since the scenery saver now works properly, you can build small framework, save it and keep building upon that (as opposed to beam by beam).

Klinn: Yep, transparency support would have been great for grating -- so for now, I just used a metal-like texture.

wickedfan07: With the beams provided, you can build those on your own actually. There's a series of horizontal, vertical and angled cross beams and as mentioned, you build one set, and keep repeating with the scenery editor.

Uncle Adolph & Others: I'll let you know.

All: I'm looking at about a week to 10 days for completion.

What's next: Working out over banked turn supports, and trying to tackle specialized Strata supports - which are far different then the other coasters. Nothing that currently exists aligns properly with this mother %$@@ ... of a coaster.

Plokoon11
07-11-2005, 04:21 PM
Pumper, is it hard to put these supports on the coaster, or is it a peice of cake??

Klinn
07-11-2005, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by joffy
Is it possible to turn off supports for individual coasters in the game? I usually stuff several small bushes underground (or just barely visible) where the supports would normally be, this will get rid of them just for that coaster. Pathway squares would work too although they would be visible.

JCat
07-11-2005, 04:42 PM
Klinn - OH yes! I forgot about that trick - thanks - whew, that's sigh of relief. Another annoyance: when you turn off supports, the shadows remain - lol - kind of weird. BTW (getting slightly off course here) The catwalks also align even with the standard RCT3 support, so if someone doesn't want to use the custom supports, the can still add the catwalks.

Plokoon11 - The hard part will be when you first get them, and have to experiment/familiarize yourself with the various types to see which align (there's a LOT) best with the each coaster you build. Placing them, however, is as easy as placing any object (wall, etc.) - and with the new CTRL key function from soaked (thank heavens) it makes the job even easier. If you want to get very fancy and do some constructing with the single beams, then there's more work involved.

RCT4me
07-11-2005, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by Pumper
Well, then, basically stick with the original 'realistic' supports that come with RCT3. Or even better, take a shot at designing your own.

First of all, I was only making suggestions, 2nd of all, the supports that come with the game are even worse. I would make my own actually if I had the time.

Interesting catwalks, but you may wish to adjust the position a little. They may need widening too.

Again, just suggestions, no need to get all mad over them.

JCat
07-11-2005, 05:58 PM
Your 'original' post wasn't a suggestion, or even constructive criticism, but I don't get mad - I just reply honestly.

See -- you can't have perfection in a game that has certain limits - particularly a "grid". which sets up some major restrictions. If the Catwalks were wider, someone else may comment that they should be narrower; the catwalks are staying the way they are. In addition, you need to see the whole picture, because if the catwalks are wider, they cut into the supports, if the supports get wider, they cut into other tracks, so somewhere a long the line, sacrifices have to be made. This isn't "No Limits" we're dealing with here.

Plokoon11
07-11-2005, 06:47 PM
Pumper could u make supports for the logflume, because the supports on the logflume stink! And its stupid! You could make the pole kind for the logflume, in stead of the wooden supports.

Atually the wooden poles would do good for that ;)



example |
^

/
/|
/ |
/ | |

Dbski247
07-11-2005, 06:49 PM
Pumper, those catwalks are PERFECT. No they aren't too wide or too narrow and they look very realistic. GREAT JOB!!!

Any idea when it'll be released? They look perfect the way they are now!

PloKoon11 - Most logflumes I've seen have wooden supports...

larry241
07-12-2005, 09:52 AM
I just gotta say, this stuff in incredible. You've really done great work. I love the catwalks. This will add some great realism to our work. One quick thing - is it possible to increase the diameter of the inverted coaster supports? I was looking at the pictures of Montu and your supports seem a little skinny in comparison.
http://www.rcdb.com/ig87.htm
Thanks so much for creating this stuff for all of us!!!

Phantom523
07-12-2005, 11:24 AM
Nice Job!!! This was looking like a great set to begin with. Those catwalks and platforms look superb!
:up:

hurrikenux
07-12-2005, 01:51 PM
Those look sweet...
flippin sweet....awesome

I wonder...is it possible to put in the swartzkopf loop supports in as a custom?...they were included in the original RCT as well as 2 but not in this one...

A pic..http://www.rcdb.com/ig95.htm?picture=17

Just curious

gabird
07-13-2005, 03:35 AM
Originally posted by hurrikenux
Those look sweet...
flippin sweet....awesome

I wonder...is it possible to put in the swartzkopf loop supports in as a custom?...they were included in the original RCT as well as 2 but not in this one...

Tell me about it! sadly I doubt we'll get those again but, I can't wait to get these awsome supports. I'm def looking forward to these babies they couldn't be better if they came with the new EP.

JCat
07-13-2005, 03:52 AM
An updated thank you. :)

larry241 - Invert support diams are thicker since those shots were taken. Thanks!


hurrikenux / gabird - I'm going to see if I can attempt to pull this off. Thank you for the pic (I now remember those in RCT2).

One thing though - the small loops vary on different coasters - which coaster 'style' would be best to design this for (Looping Coaster)?

Teirmose
07-13-2005, 03:59 AM
I love what you have shown us so far. I was wondering how you intend to have these supports laid out in the menu when you release them. I guess what I am trying to say is, how will we be able to differentiate which support go with which sections of track?
I am very happy we have people like you creating these great additions for free. You rock.

JCat
07-13-2005, 04:22 AM
Terimose- thanks. It's a good question - a number of supports will be obvious (like inverted - or loop "large" or loop "small", banked, etc..). Other supports will need experimentation, by trying them out and see how good they look or how well they align with certain coasters. Some of the more general supports may align properly on certain coasters, yet not with others - in fact, some supports are duplicated with different positions on the grid so they can cover the variety of angles or heights. Then there's the standard beams which are more like building blocks to design fancy support cross section work and stuff. When it's released, I'll have to include some type of PDF or web site guide with tips on getting started. The catwalks and planks of course are the easiest to plop and stack.

I can't wait to go back to designing more standard stuff, like walls and roofs again! :haha:

Oh, I already have the western sized double support done (you and shyguy requested this piece) with no collision detection.

ytivarg
07-13-2005, 04:41 AM
Pumper, if you haven't heard it enough from everyone here... I'm sure we ALL really appreciate all of your time in effort that has gone into this. Thank you! :D

-MoNtU
07-13-2005, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by Jamie P
Must



...



have



...


this



...



now!

Took the words right out of my mouth.

gabird
07-13-2005, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by Pumper
One thing though - the small loops vary on different coasters - which coaster 'style' would be best to design this for (Looping Coaster)?
Hi, I'll give my preference If you don't mind...I'd like to see the Schwarzkopf loop support like on Scorpion or Mindbender with the solid steel piece or if that's not really possible then maybe the pipe structure like on Revolution at MMountain, either way i'll be overly satisfied with whatever you're willing to put up for us!

Thanks Man!!!

ytivarg
07-13-2005, 01:49 PM
Regarding what loop size to tackle...

I'm not really sure what the difference in sizes is from coaster to coaster. Is it feasable to create a B&M small loop -- that will cover the twister, standup, and floorless? Or are there differences between those three?

And does the same go for the Arrow/Vekoma style loopers?

I guess what I'm asking is... where do the size differences fall?

SnooSnoo
07-13-2005, 01:55 PM
Can't wait to see these all done. This is a MUST DOWNLOAD for any person who loves coasters, especially TTD :)

hurrikenux
07-13-2005, 04:43 PM
Pumper, its the steel looping coaster...
i believe it is called the steel coaster in RCT3
it has those old looking lapbar cars with the two indents on the front of the front train.

Glad to hear youre trying to tackle it, I was wondering if it was even possible, but i guess without collision detection...

wickedfan07
07-14-2005, 12:51 AM
Originally posted by ytivarg
Regarding what loop size to tackle...
<snip>
I guess what I'm asking is... where do the size differences fall?

It would be nice if Frontier could enlighten us on this.

Jordan
07-15-2005, 11:19 PM
Bump:noob:

nickdaegg
07-16-2005, 07:07 AM
Oooh! Nice!
Could you post some pics of the new 'thicker' supports please?
Cheers :D

-MoNtU
07-16-2005, 07:50 PM
Are you going to have something for the return chain like this?
http://www.rcdb.com/ig94.htm?picture=3

Jordan
07-18-2005, 04:04 PM
bump:bulb:

Sprog2
07-18-2005, 04:26 PM
stop bumping a topic that isn't yours! Only Pumper/Jcat has that rite! :p

JCat
07-18-2005, 04:31 PM
:)

Don't worry, things are coming along. The supports have been thickend and slighly enhanced. In addition, I'm almost done with that loop capping support (the one that surrounds the loop), which in a word, is/was a *i*ch to do. I didn't think it would work, but it's looking pretty good. I still have a few more supports to mesh out, along with angled tunnels (for lifts or drops of the same angle) and hopefully, steel work exclusive to the Strata since nothing else matches up with it. :mad:

Edit: Forgot to mention - yes, there seems to be two small loop types: The twister style sizes (which is a bit more cicrular and is the same as the floorless, and some others) and the looper style (more of an eye-drop shape). The surrounding steel will be for the more circular loop. For the tear drop style, those will be angled upside down V style. Oh, and there has to be two sets of each, depending on if your loop is left/right (me wants to stab this project sometimes).

larry241
07-18-2005, 04:57 PM
I get goosebumps every time you post and update!
Can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lasertech33
07-18-2005, 05:16 PM
can u make catwalks for the chain lifts?

RCT4me
07-18-2005, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by Pumper
Your 'original' post wasn't a suggestion, or even constructive criticism, but I don't get mad - I just reply honestly.

See -- you can't have perfection in a game that has certain limits - particularly a "grid". which sets up some major restrictions. If the Catwalks were wider, someone else may comment that they should be narrower; the catwalks are staying the way they are. In addition, you need to see the whole picture, because if the catwalks are wider, they cut into the supports, if the supports get wider, they cut into other tracks, so somewhere a long the line, sacrifices have to be made. This isn't "No Limits" we're dealing with here.

Nvm about the width, but you may wish to make them a bit higher. I didn't say anything about the width of the supports anyways. Personally, I'd use a bit more room for the catwalks, but it's up to you.

Some of those supports look odd, unable to hold up the track. Some others just don't look that realistic.


I'm not saying your stuff looks bad, I just meant that a few adjustments would make it look better.

Wild Thing96
07-18-2005, 08:24 PM
lasertech33 can u make catwalks for the chain lifts? lasertech33

are you blind? look what the title of the thread is called:bulb: :bulb: :bulb:

gabird
07-18-2005, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by larry241
I get goosebumps every time you post and update!
Can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can say that again!!! I absolutely LOVE it man! Keep up the good work...and Don't Stab the project, it's the best thing since Soaked!.

Spryboy
07-19-2005, 01:30 AM
As nice as the custom supports look, I really still want some real supports (ones that work like those in RCT2, where they auto-extend to the ground when you raise and lower them) to be OFFICIALLY part of the game.

I'd love to see an entire "supports" category for support scenery items.

Sprog2
07-19-2005, 08:23 AM
I agree with Spryboy, but these are turning out better than I think any of us could have imagined... They way you've carried on with this project for sometime, and although I can tell you get annoyed with making bits sometimes, the way you've stcuk with it is amazing... personally, I would have given up a long time ago, just because there's so much modelling to do! Well Done Pumper! Keep up the hard work! :D

Sawyer
07-19-2005, 09:22 AM
I Love This Set So Much ^_^

hurrikenux
07-19-2005, 10:24 AM
In addition, I'm almost done with that loop capping support (the one that surrounds the loop), which in a word, is/was a *i*ch to do. I didn't think it would work, but it's looking pretty good.

I just wondered if it was possible, its sounding like you went and did it....and that is admirable indeed. Can't wait to see how all of this turns out. Good luck!

alpengeist04
07-19-2005, 01:40 PM
Anyone who improves the realism of the coaster is O.K. in my book. Keep up the great work.:up:

Lay-Z-Boii
07-19-2005, 04:03 PM
needs to come out! NEEDS TO COME OUT!!:haha:

-MoNtU
07-20-2005, 12:19 PM
Pumper, when are these coming out? Are you still waiting on jonwil to fix the editor?

GGggrrr

I need these now!!

gabird
07-20-2005, 10:51 PM
I can't wait to add real supports and catwalks to add realism to my coaters. These are going to rock...keep tweeking them up to make them perfect and If possible, design an Immelman Inversion.lol!!!

lasertech33
07-21-2005, 01:16 AM
hey... are you going to make the catwalks for the brake sections to?

BBall131KM
07-21-2005, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by lasertech33
hey... are you going to make the catwalks for the brake sections to?
Yup look on page 2...

JCat
07-21-2005, 01:48 AM
It's going to be a few more weeks - I'm still at the loop support point mentioned a few message back (the last time I replied), and I'm moving a business site to a new server, much which has to be restructured from scratch. This crap had to happen now, at the last minute, which is screwing up my free time for the rest of the week. Don't worry, though, I'm all over this project, so it's definitely going to happen - it's just a ton more complicated then regular scenery. Thanks for the input and concern. :)

Note: A few threads back someone mentioned how supports would extend to the ground automatically (when they used RCT2 or something).

With this pack, there are standard wall height supports for stacking/building purposes, then there are single 'finished' supports that go WAY into the ground. This means, say you have one of those A frames for an invert. You just raise it as high as you want and the rails will always stem from the ground (unless you plan on building a 3000 foot height coaster -then I can't help you there).

larry241
07-21-2005, 09:50 AM
That is sooo coool!!!
That's a great feature. Thanks for doing that!!!

jammin420s
07-21-2005, 02:10 PM
i guess a few more weeks isnt too bad...can we have like a preview/beta pack? just to get the feel for them...? Please..I cannot wait till these come out! Great Work!

XopePoquar
07-22-2005, 09:36 PM
OMG PUMPER YOUZ ROXXORZ MY BOXXXORS!!!!!11!!1!

Really, though, you're doing what Frontier should have done a while ago. Maybe if they do implement this into the game they'll pick up from where you left off and give props to you . . . and some $$.

live_the_thrill
07-24-2005, 11:16 AM
Hey pumper, could you make a support remover too? Like in RCT 2 I remeber someone made a really small dot, you would place it on the tile with the support, and bam, it goes. Include this please, it will help alot of people out, so then we can get your supports up!

-MoNtU
07-24-2005, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by live_the_thrill
Hey pumper, could you make a support remover too? Like in RCT 2 I remeber someone made a really small dot, you would place it on the tile with the support, and bam, it goes. Include this please, it will help alot of people out, so then we can get your supports up!
I don't think that's possible in rct3?!

Pumper, How far are you done? If your just working on the loop then can you release the pack without the loop? I really need these!

BBall131KM
07-24-2005, 03:44 PM
Can you give us an estimated release date?

WalkingSnake
07-24-2005, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by live_the_thrill
Hey pumper, could you make a support remover too? Like in RCT 2 I remeber someone made a really small dot, you would place it on the tile with the support, and bam, it goes. Include this please, it will help alot of people out, so then we can get your supports up!

Just place a big scenery object (such as one of the volcano ride events) underground where you want the supports removed.

ytivarg
07-24-2005, 11:15 PM
Or, rocks and trees work just as well...

yuvaly
07-25-2005, 07:28 AM
what a great idea! few days ago i thought to myself "if RCT3 had stairs at the begining of a rollercoaster that'll be much more realistic" and now it's happening! yay! can't wait:D

BBall131KM
07-25-2005, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by yuvaly
what a great idea! few days ago i thought to myself "if RCT3 had stairs at the begining of a rollercoaster that'll be much more realistic" and now it's happening! yay! can't wait:D lol I was thinking that too, a few weeks ago though.

-MoNtU
07-25-2005, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by yuvaly
what a great idea! few days ago i thought to myself "if RCT3 had stairs at the begining of a rollercoaster that'll be much more realistic" and now it's happening! yay! can't wait:D
It's called a catwalk.

Jordan
07-26-2005, 12:04 PM
i want this soon, its so awesome, keep up the good work;)

yuvaly
07-26-2005, 02:45 PM
ya, a catwalk

Maurice10
07-27-2005, 07:34 AM
omg... there are no words for your custom set :D
Could you make some supports which you can put on some poles, please? maybe for indoor coasters, like Wuzetown in Phantasialand,
Here's a pic:

http://www.rcdb.com/ig1235.htm?picture=9

left side of the coaster, theres a big pole! and there are (with wood) some supports to the Helix!

Maurice

jammin420s
07-27-2005, 02:45 PM
would people stop requesting stuff, because if you do it will take more time for him to get this stuff to us! and i like the idea and i would like them as soon as he can get them done.

-MoNtU
07-27-2005, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by jammin420s
would people stop requesting stuff, because if you do it will take more time for him to get this stuff to us! and i like the idea and i would like them as soon as he can get them done.
Ditto, You don't know how much I neeed these!

uncle_adolph
07-27-2005, 04:05 PM
Yah, my heart dropped when he said it would be another few weeks. I would rather people stop requesting stuff so we can get these sometime before 2010!

-Ben

WalkingSnake
07-27-2005, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by jammin420s
would people stop requesting stuff, because if you do it will take more time for him to get this stuff to us! and i like the idea and i would like them as soon as he can get them done.

So you'd rather have the pack right now than wait a little bit for it to be the best it can be?

Sounds like the RCT3 release all over again.

Maurice10
07-27-2005, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by WalkingSnake
So you'd rather have the pack right now than wait a little bit for it to be the best it can be?

Sounds like the RCT3 release all over again.

I couldn't say that better ;)

And i dont "Request" it, i just give him some tips on what he could work^^ i dont need it so much, but better have something what you could need later, than don't have it, eh?

JCat
07-27-2005, 05:08 PM
Thanks for the input - most of the primary supports are near finished, though I still have to get that seperate Strata thing going. I'm just debating whether they'll get much use since it's not the most versitle coaster of the bunch. Tonight I'll post some of the latest pics including the small loop frame (very much like the one from RCT2), and the newer large loop side supports (I dumped the previous). If I can get in some of the recently requested odd supports (like the mentioned above) then I will. Still have at least at least one week to go anyway.

Maurice10
07-27-2005, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by Pumper
(very much like the one from RCT2)

I loved that one from RCT1/2 :)




I hope the Pics are good :D (of course they're good :P)

RCT4me
07-27-2005, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by WalkingSnake
Just place a big scenery object (such as one of the volcano ride events) underground where you want the supports removed.

Good waste of polygons... :rolleyes:

Any updates with this? Are you going to use a simple mesh as a support remover? I normally would use trees for this but it doesn't always work, like on water, even though I can use rocks, there's no need to place them deep underwater where you never see them.

Tom65789
07-27-2005, 05:25 PM
im still dying for these to be released :D

WalkingSnake
07-27-2005, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by RCT4me
Good waste of polygons... :rolleyes:

Yup, but it's one of the easiest ways..

RCT4me
07-27-2005, 05:39 PM
^I'd stick to using rocks and trees.

WalkingSnake
07-27-2005, 05:41 PM
I would, too. But I was giving a suggestion for those who didn't want to use tons of rocks and trees under their coaster. :rolleyes:

live_the_thrill
07-27-2005, 05:43 PM
Trees and rocks stick out to much sometimes, but I still want a support remover. Also a good thing to use is the pots in the Atlantis scenery, the broken ones, they are small and removed supports.

Maurice10
07-27-2005, 05:47 PM
you can make the terrain down (opposite of higher...) and put some terrain plates in there ^^ i guess that has to work

AznGameFreak
07-27-2005, 07:00 PM
ahhh! hurry up!! I desperatly need this! I don't mean to be rude. lol.

RCT4me
07-27-2005, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by Maurice10
you can make the terrain down (opposite of higher...) and put some terrain plates in there ^^ i guess that has to work

It doesn't. (the support foots touch the terrain tile) Plus it wastes polygons again lol, and there's always the blocky lighting issues.

JCat
07-27-2005, 08:59 PM
Those who plan on making a few coasters can always turn off the supports all together, but if you plan on having quite a number of coasters, and you don't feel like adding custom supports for every last one (which can be a lengthy process), then you're going to have leave the regular supports active and plant something to block out the supports on a particular coaster. The problem is, the common way to do it is using trees or any of the scenery pieces (most commonly 'roofs') as a floor base. I don't know of anything in particularly I can model to look normal on the base floor.

I first have to figure out how to invoke "collision", otherwise, what ever is designed, will be ignored by the current supports. Then, perhaps, I can make single plane sheets - like roof pieces, but only one single side so it doesn't waste the poly count. They'll have to be pushed under ground though, otherwise, you might as well go back to using any roof tile. At least once a coaster is finished, you can save it together with scenery as that's what the supports will be recognized as by the program.

This package is not going to overcome every possible problem, as these are nothing like modeling walls and such, which are a breeze to import (in terms of RCT3 alignment standards) compared to this, but it's going to be an interesting alternative to what we have now. Just remember some key words: This is not "No Limits" we're dealing with, and was not meant to be.
;)

live_the_thrill
07-27-2005, 09:44 PM
Why not make a plain dot, which takes over 1 tile, that would work, you can see it as it is tiny and saves polygons.

ytivarg
07-27-2005, 10:20 PM
Or, you could be happy with the fact that he's taking this much time and effort to bring us supports and use a rock. If you don't wanna see it, shift it below ground level. it still takes away the support, and it's not visible.

BBall131KM
07-28-2005, 08:42 PM
It will take longer to make if he makes 'support removers'.

JCat
07-28-2005, 11:18 PM
A few more screen shots: 07/28

Oh, diagonal tube stacking is the absolute nastiest to work with. I tried my best, but way up close, you can see small dots around the perimeter at each separation. It's not too bad, depends on how the sun hits it. It's color-able..

http://www.trackworx.com/0728sup4.jpg
http://www.trackworx.com/0728sup3.jpg
http://www.trackworx.com/0728sup2.jpg
http://www.trackworx.com/0728sup1.jpg

RCT4me
07-28-2005, 11:22 PM
Interesting, very nice. The tunnels are a nice addition. Very well detailed with the flanges too.

What about footers to the supports? (just an idea)

KiDFoX
07-28-2005, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by RCT4me
Interesting, very nice. The tunnels are a nice addition. Very well detailed with the flanges too.

What about footers to the supports? (just an idea)

I have a suggestion about that. My guess is Pumper would be wasting his time to put footers on the supports as folks will need to be able to adjust them into the ground many times to line them up with track. My suggestion is to just make a seperate footer piece or see if Klinn's arch bases will line up. If they do then they will work for footers and there is no need to make new ones.

Chances are depending on how much people need to adust them to terrain footers may not always be possible anyhow.

iceatcs
07-28-2005, 11:40 PM
The footers are gotta to be harder because the base of support is variable place by depending to the height/angle of support. When raised, the Twin supports (B&M Style) - the vertical one will be fine as its stay on the same place, but the base of the angled support will moving when rising.

Example:
OO two base supports
O O when rising
O&nbsp;&nbsp;O more rise.

Just one footer can fixable for any vertical support. It might not for the angled support unless if he willing to do adjust the entire base places each time the angled support rise, which it might be end up with too many footers on the list in the scenery list.

KiDFoX
07-29-2005, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by iceatcs
Just one footer can fixable for any vertical support. It might not for the angled support unless if he willing to do adjust the entire base places each time the angled support rise, which it might be end up with too many footers on the list in the scenery list.

That was what I was getting at. Might not be worth the trouble and things that have already been made might work in some situations.

marnetmar
07-29-2005, 12:18 AM
Excellent work on these Pumper, as for the footers, I wouldn't worry about them, that would be a lot of work & a lot more models to deal with.

AznGameFreak
07-29-2005, 12:22 AM
ahhh. It looks to me like its pretty much finished lol. But then again I dunno much about what you are doing or creating custom scenary. Btw. I can wait... kinda. Great job though!

ytivarg
07-29-2005, 12:29 AM
Pumper, ignore the nitpicking from other users of this forum... I think they look absolutely fantastic. This will be above and beyond the most-used custom scenery pack yet.

I simply cannot wait to implement these into my parks. I do hope you can figure out the Strata supports. Sabor in Villain Valley is simply begging for them. ;) :haha:

JCat
07-29-2005, 12:43 AM
Thank you guys..

Yeah, unfortuantly, footers are out of the question because of all the possiblities (iceatcs explained it well actually). You can always raise blocks of cement so it covers a few support bases at a time, that way they don't look like they're just growing out of the grass.
I do wish I knew which flag turned on collision though, as I want to try to get some type of dummy RCT3 support killer going..

Strata's up next...

shyguy
07-29-2005, 01:04 AM
This is definitely going to be one of the best new packs to date!!! Hurry, hurry, hurry!!!!:D

Caffinated
07-29-2005, 01:17 AM
Pumper,

First off. These look amazing. This will be a huge improvment in the look of many parks. It will also allow for the creation of non-magical-floating-in-mid-air tracks when you have them over paths or other rides, another huge bonus :).

I remember from one of the importer threads (both actually...it made it into the "condensed version" as well) something about enabling collision.

If I remember properly, it was flag 33 on, Unknown 8 as 3 and Unknown 6 as the increment to jump. Don't know if this eliminated supports and stuff though, or if it just made it so you can't place 2 items on 1 spot.

Let me play with this a bit as you continue to work on your stuff and maybe I can figure something out to save your time and frustration (you've put plenty of both already into your work in this set.)

JCat
07-29-2005, 01:41 AM
Thanks upper decks. :-)

Caffinated - Thank you - that would be immense if you could test the flag settings as mentioned. It would be a standard full tile (roof-style). Thanks again

JCat
07-29-2005, 01:42 AM
Thanks upper decks. :-)

Caffinated - Thank you - that would be immense if you could test the flag settings as mentioned. It would be a standard full tile (roof-style). Thanks again

Caffinated
07-29-2005, 02:24 AM
Good news.

Using the settings I described above, I managed to have the item move the support. Nicely enough, the collision for the item itself is off (so you can overlap them on themselves).

http://img278.imageshack.us/img278/5285/test0010ym.jpg

<edit>
That middle piece does shift the support to the inside. I messed up when taking the shot and didn't notice until now. ><.

And, the settings on these pieces were:
Position - 0,0,0
Size - 1,1,1
Size in Squares - 1,1
Wall Misc
No supports, No Extra Parameters
Size flag - Full Tile
Unknown 1 - 1
Unknown 2 - 1
Unknown 3,4,5 - 0
Unknown 6 - 1
Unknown 7 - 0
Unknown 8 - 3
Unknown 9 - 0
Flag 33 checked (others left blank)

This was also in 6.1, I ran into an error with the png format on the icon for 10 so I just used what I already knew :).
</edit>

<edit some more>
I was testing creating wider objects to remove all 3 instances at once, but it was still only affecting a single square, so I'm not sure how this is done yet :(. I will test some more tomorrow to see if I can figure it out.
</edit>

Tidus243
07-29-2005, 08:05 AM
This are very good news!!!!:D Can't wait for the final release!

mini_shima
07-29-2005, 08:58 AM
Thanks for the hulk tunnel, I asked for it earlier:D Looking great! Cant wait. Would rather have this than an expansion!

live_the_thrill
07-29-2005, 09:15 AM
For a footer you could use those blocks for the Blox pack.

How come removing supports doesn't work for me? I place a tree fully underground where the support is, and it does go, is it some kind of bug?

larry241
07-29-2005, 09:25 AM
OMG.......I CAN'T FREAKIN' WAIT!!!
Did you see those supports he made? OMG OMG
Now we can make Hulk, and Scorpion, and...and...wow!
Man, I can't wait!

Maurice10
07-29-2005, 09:59 AM
Originally posted by larry241
Did you see those supports he made?
Which supports? i dont see any supports in this thread.


Nah, I totally agree with you^^ Pumper Rox :up: :up:

FLIPDUDE
07-29-2005, 10:29 AM
I know someone siad no requests, but this is basiclaly just something for you to consider if you wanted to do or do you preffer to do something else - on waer slide helixes there's usually one suppor tpole going through the middle and branching otu to different parts of the helix to hold it.

Caffinated
07-29-2005, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by live_the_thrill
For a footer you could use those blocks for the Blox pack.

How come removing supports doesn't work for me? I place a tree fully underground where the support is, and it does go, is it some kind of bug?

Not sure LTT. I did notice that since I got soaked, I can't bury stuff super deep like I used to (probably due to tunnelling stuff?), but a few clicks underground should still work. (I did test the settings (with a flatter object) at one and 2 clicks underground, and the supports were still removed.)

cp_diva
07-29-2005, 12:49 PM
This is by far the custom scenery pieces that I am most looking forward to. Thank you Pumper for taking the time out of your schedule to create something all of us can use and benefit from.

Klinn
07-29-2005, 01:02 PM
Wow - amazing work, Pumper! That last shot of the loop with the two angled supports, well, I just had sit and stare at it for a while.... Lovely, just lovely. And the geometry of that angled, stackable tunnel must have been a challenge to figure out - phew!

As Caffinated mentioned, it will be great to use these in places where the game removes too many of the standard supports. I have some "floating" coasters over pool areas that I would love to fix up that way. I don't care if peeps swim through them, it will still look much better.

Great job, and take your time... ;)

RCTMaNiAc255
07-29-2005, 01:19 PM
Those supports you made are way better then the default ones.Awsome work. :)

Caffinated
07-29-2005, 01:44 PM
Something else I've noticed with the collision and the "support remover" settings.

Currently they have zero effect on any wooden supports. I'm not even sure if there will be a way to totally remove wooden supports as they have different properties dealing with collision. Rather than shifting to the side (and eventually removing in total) they simply move to the top of the structure beneath them. (or the closest click at least).

Since most of your support pieces appear to be created for steel structures, this may not be an issue, but it's something to think about if custom wooden supports are ever to be made.

I will continue looking into this later today and see what I can find.

JCat
07-29-2005, 03:13 PM
Thanks all above..

Caff, thank you for taking the time to map this out. I will implement your settings tonight and see what I come up with for a "dummy" support assassin. :)

Wooden is not happening this time around, so yeah, it's nothing to be concerned with, but thank you for bringing that up. .

marnetmar
07-29-2005, 05:53 PM
Is it done yet???????? LMAO jk Pumper ;)

Take as much time as you need to on this Pumper, I know it'll be worth the wait when it's completed :up: :up: :up:

W1ckeD
07-29-2005, 05:58 PM
Pumper...Great job i cant wait until it released.
Its looking superb.
Take all the time you need to make it a great pack! :D

Good luck :cool:

Small Print
07-29-2005, 06:04 PM
I have a suggestion, could you make safety nets like on spinball whizzer at alton towers, it could make our rides look more realistic. Unless its too much trouble. Looks Superb BTW, very good.

Tom65789
07-29-2005, 06:08 PM
OR COME ON... WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO BE RELEASED

WalkingSnake
07-29-2005, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by Tom65789
OR COME ON... WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO BE RELEASED

It's people like you that lead to early buggy releases. :downcast:

BBall131KM
07-29-2005, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by WalkingSnake
It's people like you that lead to early buggy releases. :downcast: Yeah I agree, and this thread should be at the top and marked as announcement

-[A.S] Fanie-
07-29-2005, 07:10 PM
errr, you do know that we cant get invisible supports in SOAKED! right.

If you can then i'm blind :p

Jamie P
07-29-2005, 07:22 PM
for the invidible wall's i just put a third hight wall under ground 2 clicks so you can't see it, then it makes the support go, and i do have soaked

live_the_thrill
07-30-2005, 08:45 AM
I took some pictures showing what I mean, tress, roofs, walls dont work, if I place them under the support, the support moves to the side, the only way to get rid of them is to put that volcano piece under ground. What am I doing wrong?

Also does anyone know why diagonal lift hills dont have any supports?
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/6875/shot00006tt.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


The tree method:

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/1526/shot00044kd.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The roof method:

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/2162/shot00055it.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The wall method:

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/7523/shot00061fu.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Only the volcano worked:

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/913/shot00083ek.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

iceatcs
07-30-2005, 09:16 AM
use the rock or any smaller, plant it on under support base when support move, plant again that new base place, sometime support will gone or move to other side. You need keep putting the rocks around till the support gone.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v673/iceatcs/Shot0159.jpg

You can see my coaster than there are many rocks around for to get rid the supports, also it is looks good to visible rocks rather putting it underground.

live_the_thrill
07-30-2005, 09:22 AM
Oh, I thought you meant you lot placed 1 piece and the support removed, I didn't know you had to use multiple pieces. Thanks iceatcs, BTW I cant wait for your logo pack! :D

JCat
07-30-2005, 03:12 PM
I was able to create an invisible square tile - aka "support killer"; it's a single plane (one side of a roof tile). The great thing is, there's no need to shift them below ground, so the process is faster - you just stamp them around like you would any kind of roof tile. The only slight drawback is, because they're invisible you won't be able tell where you already planted them, which is actually not a big deal because the supports where you planted them will be obliterated. You can also design your own size by making larger grid patterns - (again, they're invisible so have to do this carefully), then saving them as custom scenery. Now when you load it back, you can knock out dozens of supports at once time.

*A big Thanks* to Caffeinated for working out those collision settings. :up:

Also - the main frame for the Strata is done - (these are longer then the other standard cross beams in the pack; Three types had to be constructed, but it's actually turning out pretty nicely. The two side tower tubes and middle back were already in game as" center tube" and "corner tube" so that was a step saver.

marnetmar
07-30-2005, 03:21 PM
Sounds Great Pumper, Big thanks to you & Caffeinated for figuring this out :up: :up:

Caffinated
07-30-2005, 04:31 PM
Something I forgot to mention as well, the tests I ran with the settings above, the object DID get deleted with the multiple delete tool.

Since the Support Killers are invisible, this becomes a very good thing as you can remove them without the guesswork you otherwise would have to do.

Sounds like these are moving along nicely :) can't wait to play with them when they come out.

Lastly, I must say that the collision settings were not mine. I had seen them when I first started my letter set and was reading all the threads. They just stuck in my head for some reason so I retested them :).

From Everything you can know on : Jonwil's Scenery Editor (http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=468638&highlight=collision+detection)
6. Issue
Issue : There is no collision detection for newly created objects.
Solution : A set of flags have to be set for the collision detection to work.
Guybrush_47 explains...
If you want collision on select the following:

Size = X=4 Y=4 Z=4 (those will change determing on your object) - EDIT (Now not sure this is needed)
Unknown 6 = 0
Unknown 8 = 3
Flag 33 = ticked

This will enable the user, not to be able to place it on any other objects and will stop the user from duplicating the object over and over again on the same square.
(Looks like my memory was a bit off...but it works at least :).)

JCat
07-30-2005, 04:41 PM
Caff - Yeah, I remember them being posted a while back in potter's compiled thread- but thanks for researching it again. Yes, the multi grid box deletion tool works perfectly for the invisible titles - I tested that last night. Which setting in the import directly enables that? I'll check the thread in the meantime, as I have to apply this to all supports near the end. Thanks again..

live_the_thrill
07-30-2005, 04:43 PM
A big thank you! Finally an easy and good looking way to remove supports, sorry for keep going on about it, but it was really needed ;)

DJ Atomix
07-30-2005, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by iceatcs

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v673/iceatcs/Shot0159.jpg


What tubing is that? That looks awesome!

JCat
07-30-2005, 05:02 PM
That's part of Klinn's ElectroShock set - the first one ever released.

DJ Atomix
07-30-2005, 05:06 PM
Thank you for remining me! I need to delete one of the sets. I have two and one doesn't work. But great supports! How do we apply different ones to different coasters of the same type?

wickedfan07
07-30-2005, 05:23 PM
Very nice pictures Pumper. Glad to see you and Caffinated were able to figure out the collission detection. You all have one hundered times more patience with this than I could ever have. Thanks for the great wrk you are doing. This pack especially will be such a help to many people. :Up:

Thanks again!
wickedfan07

Willyfan2bibi
07-30-2005, 05:51 PM
Great idea!
But will you make supports for waterslide? Like this (pink slide) :

http://www.yellowheadit.com/content/2002/june26/P.L.P%20waterslide.jpg

WalkingSnake
07-30-2005, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by Pumper
I was able to create an invisible square tile - aka "support killer"; it's a single plane (one side of a roof tile). The great thing is, there's no need to shift them below ground, so the process is faster - you just stamp them around like you would any kind of roof tile. The only slight drawback is, because they're invisible you won't be able tell where you already planted them, which is actually not a big deal because the supports where you planted them will be obliterated. You can also design your own size by making larger grid patterns - (again, they're invisible so have to do this carefully), then saving them as custom scenery. Now when you load it back, you can knock out dozens of supports at once time.

The only problem with invisable custom scenery is that it's completely undeleteable. If you use the "mass-delete" tool, where you select grid tiles to delete, it won't delete custom scenery.

On the up side, I don't see a reason why you'de really need to, unless you want your supports back..

Klinn
07-30-2005, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by Pumper
Yes, the multi grid box deletion tool works perfectly for the invisible titles - I tested that last night. Which setting in the import directly enables that? In my tests, it's the flag 33 checkbox which allows use of the mass-deletion tool, along with two other effects - showing at least a single blue square on the ground for the custom object, and preventing placement of the item directly on a path. You can still put the object one notch below a path, it's not full collision detection, just a restriction.

I used that setting for my ElectroShock set to get the mass-delete tool working, but didn't want it with the Frameworks set so arches could be placed right on paths.

JCat
07-30-2005, 08:20 PM
Thanks Klinn - so basically, flag 33 handles 3 attributes? That's awesomely easy enough. Oh, does this mean I still have have to change those two 'unknown' parameters as suggeted orginally by Guybrush in that compiled Potter thread?

-MoNtU
07-30-2005, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by Willyfan2bibi
Great idea!
But will you make supports for waterslide? Like this (pink slide) :

http://www.yellowheadit.com/content/2002/june26/P.L.P%20waterslide.jpg
Yes, A must Have!!

Park Novice
07-30-2005, 08:45 PM
Jcat, I believe the combination of Unknown 9 =1 and Flag 34 ticked allows the shift to be used whilst placing scenery items in combination with the Unknown 8 and Flag 33 property.

Maurice10
07-31-2005, 09:19 AM
Originally posted by Tmul
Yes, A must Have!!

I dont think so. They just need time and i dont need those. you could make 2 sets: "Coaster Support set" and "Waterslide Support set"... just finish the Custom support set now :P cant wait^^

Klinn
07-31-2005, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by Pumper
Thanks Klinn - so basically, flag 33 handles 3 attributes? That's awesomely easy enough. Oh, does this mean I still have have to change those two 'unknown' parameters as suggeted orginally by Guybrush in that compiled Potter thread? I tried all three items mentioned by Guy_Brush, but for me only flag 33 made a difference for the "mass deletion/blue square/path restriction" combo of effects. YMMV, of course. ;) :)

Flag 34 also seems to set for almost every standard RCT3 scenery piece, so I was checkmarking that one for a while, but to be honest I have no clue what it actually does. Maybe it's part of the Shift-to-place system as Park Novice mentioned, although I didn't get consistent results in my (limited) testing of a variety of differently-sized pieces.

Maurice10
08-01-2005, 07:14 AM
Any news? Give us some new pics, they rule :3

mini_shima
08-01-2005, 08:04 AM
Originally posted by Maurice10
Any news? Give us some new pics, they rule :3

PLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ:D I want this set more than anything else!!!!!!!!!

Maurice10
08-03-2005, 05:15 PM
hello?^^ anyone there?^^

JCat
08-03-2005, 05:51 PM
Yep, I'm here, but unfortunately, I'm over 16 -- way over 16, so there's a real job, and real life situations to contend with. The package is getting worked on any night possible, and since this isn't a few pretty walls, or one style of support, it's not something you can just put whip out to the public in a short period. There's still plenty of alignment tweaking, and resizing, then renaming, followed by reinstalling a number of models so they'll allow for "global deletion", and of course, icons, and instructions. This is the largest pack to date, and I know there's going to be a lot of "how come this support doesn't line up to my ultra Dragonball Z versus Mucha Lucha coaster" type questions. Of course, I can also put it out now, as is, where only half the supports would be useful, while the other half would be scrap metal.

This weekend I have a wedding out of town to go to (Mystic, CT.), and I'l be back on Monday eve. The rest of that week I will getting it all together, for release - around Friday/Saturday of next week.

Thanks for wondering though!


Oh, tonight will be some final screen shots.

tikitiki
08-03-2005, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by Pumper
and I know there's going to be a lot of "how come this support doesn't line up to my ultra Dragonball Z versus Mucha Lucha coaster.

:haha: :haha: :haha: :up:


I'm plopped in my chair waiting for the supports :)

Caffinated
08-03-2005, 08:29 PM
This weekend I have a wedding out of town to go to (Mystic, CT.), At least it's somewhere interesting :) (at least to the history buff inside me). Have a great time.

These supports are looking better and better each time I look at the thread (and each time I realize how very limited the auto supports in the game are ><).

darth rct
08-04-2005, 04:07 AM
can we download it yet

nickdaegg
08-04-2005, 04:32 AM
Nope. I'm sure pumper will tell us when they are ready to download.
Anywho, i also realized that the in game supports are useless - i don't think an inverted monorail needs as much support as it has in the game.... build a straight line of one to see what i mean!

RCTmanic
08-04-2005, 02:33 PM
Now this is getting intresting.
Please, release this soon

bladexdsl
08-04-2005, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by Tmul
Yes, A must Have!!

there's another support pack in the making for those

RCTMaNiAc255
08-04-2005, 05:15 PM
Take your time,your doing an great job. :up:

-MoNtU
08-04-2005, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by bladexdsl
there's another support pack in the making for those
No kidding

mini_shima
08-05-2005, 04:41 AM
Originally posted by RCTmanic
Now this is getting intresting.
Please, release this soon

I totally agree. Any new screens or even a release date? Thanks.:rolleyes:

Tom65789
08-05-2005, 05:06 AM
when these come out they will be one of the best ever sets

Iumdyan
08-05-2005, 05:15 AM
Take your time pumper. I'm also anctious to get my hands on these supports, but better to have supports that all work, then to get buggy ones.

Keep up the good work.

BBall131KM
08-05-2005, 12:52 PM
He said the release date would be next friday or saturday.

KiDFoX
08-05-2005, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by Willyfan2bibi
Great idea!
But will you make supports for waterslide? Like this (pink slide) :

http://www.yellowheadit.com/content/2002/june26/P.L.P%20waterslide.jpg

Iceatcs' Custom Slide Supports (http://ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=485934&highlight=water+slide+supports)

WalkingSnake
08-07-2005, 02:04 PM
Any updates? :)

DJ Atomix
08-07-2005, 02:06 PM
How woud you know the size of the support in the game when making it?

Maurice10
08-07-2005, 03:22 PM
You cant. *making custom scenery 2*

You allways got to import it, watch it, fix it, import----

DJ Atomix
08-07-2005, 03:39 PM
Oh! OK!

mini_shima
08-08-2005, 04:09 AM
Originally posted by WalkingSnake
Any updates? :)


OT: But WS wern't you making some custom signs? Like height signs and things. What happened?:( I loved them

WalkingSnake
08-08-2005, 04:24 AM
Originally posted by mini_shima
OT: But WS wern't you making some custom signs? Like height signs and things. What happened?:( I loved them

Had more problems that expected. Texture problems, the signs would dissappear when just a few tiles away from the camera, etc. I might try it again when we get everything with the scenery importer figured out.

JCat
08-10-2005, 01:41 AM
I was away for three days, so now I'm trying to catch up. The following are some closing preview shots as now it's time for final tweaking before everything comes together. I can't predict the future, particularly with my line of work, but I hope to get this out by the weekend.

One Final Note: I don't want to collapse any expectations. I did the best I can to "support" the strata, but I wanted to emphasize, that not every support normally seen on coasters like the Top Thrill Dragster/Kingda Ka will be present. There are so many supports you can make, without spending the rest of the year working on this, but I was able to cover some of the main supports, while the rest is up to you and your imagination. Thanks again!
http://www.trackworx.com/0809sup1.jpg
http://www.trackworx.com/0809sup2.jpg
http://www.trackworx.com/0809sup7.jpg

JCat
08-10-2005, 01:42 AM
..continued

http://www.trackworx.com/0809sup6.jpg
http://www.trackworx.com/0809sup5.jpg
http://www.trackworx.com/0809sup4.jpg
http://www.trackworx.com/0809sup3.jpg

Rybo-XL
08-10-2005, 01:51 AM
The supports are perfecto!:D Great Job Pumper!;)

TheSkipper
08-10-2005, 03:19 AM
KEWL as S&*t Dude! Looks like nce this is ready, RCT QL #3 is ready to roll out!!

gabird
08-10-2005, 03:48 AM
These Look "Friggin Sweet "!!! Pumper...How can I thank you!
I am going to love playing with these!.