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MaxInfinity
11-08-2005, 10:19 AM
Has anyone had any luck using alpha masks/textures yet.
I remember a post by Klinn, saying he had limited success.
Klinn could you post the method you used, if you had some success at least its a starting point.
I'm gonna experiment later, but I dont want to waste my time if someones already worked it out.

JCat
11-08-2005, 01:59 PM
My question is - do you create two identical bmps, but one of them with black or white areas of where the alpha masks are? Or do you use only one bmp and load it up twice where it asked for texture/alpha? I did a test sample last night of a red object on a black background. Well, the black was transparent successfully, but only the outline of the red object showed instead of a solid object - that was weird.

marnetmar
11-08-2005, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by Pumper
My question is - do you create two identical bmps, but one of them with black or white areas of where the alpha masks are? Or do you use only one bmp and load it up twice where it asked for texture/alpha? I did a test sample last night of a red object on a black background. Well, the black was transparent successfully, but only the outline of the red object showed instead of a solid object - that was weird.

Basically that's it Pumper, the areas you want to be transparent need to be black in the "alpha" texture file & the parts you want to show up should be white. I've been having some of those "outline" errors myself & I'm not sure why. Other times the entire model is transparent for some reason.

I got that web texture to work just fine, but some other textures I made at the same time & the same way are giving me those weird errors of the outline or not showing up at all, so I'm not sure why that is happening yet.

JCat
11-08-2005, 04:58 PM
Thanks M! So it is 2 seperate bmps? I see, thanks - I'll try to experiment a bit more.

marnetmar
11-08-2005, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by Pumper
Thanks M! So it is 2 seperate bmps? I see, thanks - I'll try to experiment a bit more.

Yes, your regular texture bmp & then the black/white one for the alpha. I just give them the same name & add _a on the end of the alpha one.

Klinn
11-09-2005, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by MaxInfinity
I remember a post by Klinn, saying he had limited success.
Klinn could you post the method you used. Heh-heh, I haven't really used ordinary textures much, never mind adding alpha textures to the mix! I did some translucent objects with the 'SIGlass' rendering style, perhaps that's the post you're remembering? Sorry I can't help more, but I'm wandering off to try modding "The Movies (http://www.lionhead.com/themovies/about.html)" very soon anyway... :)

MaxInfinity
11-10-2005, 08:02 AM
Maybe it was a post from marnetmar then, sorry for the confusion.


marnetmar
I create an alphamap in black and white and import it along with the normall texture (which I have already done a few times in the past with no success) are there any flags that need to be set

thanx

marnetmar
11-10-2005, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by MaxInfinity
marnetmar
I create an alphamap in black and white and import it along with the normall texture (which I have already done a few times in the past with no success) are there any flags that need to be set

thanx

No special flags need to be selected for the alpha textures, just use whatever you would normally use for those & try the SIAlphaMask setting for the texture.

2005
11-10-2005, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by Klinn
Heh-heh, I haven't really used ordinary textures much, never mind adding alpha textures to the mix! I did some translucent objects with the 'SIGlass' rendering style, perhaps that's the post you're remembering? Sorry I can't help more, but I'm wandering off to try modding "The Movies (http://www.lionhead.com/themovies/about.html)" very soon anyway... :)


That game looked like a good idea 5 years ago but the realease version looks like the sims: the movies. You want to mod that instead of RCT????

JCat
11-10-2005, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by 2005
That game looked like a good idea 5 years ago but the realease version looks like the sims: the movies. You want to mod that instead of RCT????

Don't question a man of good taste. The characters may look sim-ish, but the movie making ability is suppose to be quite extensive.

Vodhin
11-10-2005, 08:52 PM
Hey, might there be two "mask" textures? One showing where the transparancy is and one showing where it's solid? Just a thought...

marnetmar
11-10-2005, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by Vodhin
Hey, might there be two "mask" textures? One showing where the transparancy is and one showing where it's solid? Just a thought...

You have to use 2 different textures to make part of the model transparent. One with the regular texture & the other to tell the game what part to show & what part to make transparent.

JCat
11-10-2005, 11:07 PM
Marnetmar -

I did that, trying SIAlpha, then SIAlpha Mask, and finally SIAlphaMask low, and for some reason, the target object appears translucent along with the background (well, somewhat -- you can see the object, but barley). Gotta have time to experiment with it more; damn job.

Vodhin
11-11-2005, 10:55 AM
I do believe Iceatcs' has figured this out-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v673/iceatcs/finalpictureoftimber.jpg

Check it out in his thread: http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=7274266#post7274266

If he doesn't want to share his knowledge, I happen to know someone in the scenery mafia :p (just kidding)

JCat
11-11-2005, 03:11 PM
Dare I ask how the transparency was done, finally? Looks stunning.

iceatcs
11-11-2005, 03:29 PM
Well, it is quite easy, just make sure if the alpha texture are quite dark to let transparent more,
If you alpha are greyish it might not good idea for glass effect.

But I have been tried with SIAlpha, and it doesn’t work well.
SIAlphaMask Low seems to working well with transparent background but it is might be because of my glass is grid framing on it with make it working better than without.

MaxInfinity
11-11-2005, 04:29 PM
ok I think I got it sussed now, just a bit of fine tunning and I'll post the results


ok got it worked out now.

http://www.damon-foord.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Shot0001.jpg

load a copy of your texture (make sure you dont overwrite the original.
any parts you want to see through, colour them black 255,255,255,
any parts you want to be able to see, colour them white 0,0,0,
save the black and white file as either a black and white only 8bit .bmp file or a greyscale 8bit .bmp file.
now when you create your .ovl file, load your original texture as the texture and your black and white or greyscale texture as the alpha.
I used the SIalphamask to achieve the pic above, will experiment with the others l8r

MaxInfinity
11-11-2005, 05:13 PM
skip/marn please delete this post its the same as the one above
Thanx

ok got it worked out now.

http://www.damon-foord.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Shot0001.jpg

load a copy of your texture (make sure you dont overwrite the original.
any parts you want to see through, colour them black 255,255,255,
any parts you want to be able to see, colour them white 0,0,0,
save the black and white file as either a black and white only 8bit .bmp file or a greyscale 8bit .bmp file.
now when you create your .ovl file, load your original texture as the texture and your black and white or greyscale texture as the alpha.
I used the SIalphamask to achieve the pic above, will experiment with the others l8r

Klinn
11-13-2005, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by 2005
That game looked like a good idea 5 years ago but the realease version looks like the sims: the movies. You want to mod that instead of RCT????Originally posted by Pumper
Don't question a man of good taste. The characters may look sim-ish, but the movie making ability is suppose to be quite extensive. Heh-heh, 2005, feel free to question my taste... and sanity for that matter. :) Yes, there are a lot of SIMs-like elements within the tycoon part of "The Movies", but that's only one aspect of the game. There's a sandbox mode too, where you concentrate on creating movies, not managing stars' moods. And the devs have already said they want to release modding tools to the community.

However... (here comes the questionable sanity bit) ...I consider all this a diversion until Oblivion (http://www.elderscrolls.com/games/oblivion_overview.htm) comes out. That's my modding heaven - crafting adventures for other people to experience and enjoy.

Eek - sorry this has gone so far off-topic - umm, Iceatcs & Maxinfinity, those are some really cool examples of using transparent textures! (whew)

MaxInfinity
11-13-2005, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by Klinn
However... (here comes the questionable sanity bit) ...I consider all this a diversion until Oblivion (http://www.elderscrolls.com/games/oblivion_overview.htm) comes out. That's my modding heaven - crafting adventures for other people to experience and enjoy.


Just make sure you stick around here aswell after all I believe you jonwil and pumper are the founders of custom scenery. and your help has been invaluable to these forums. so don't you dare disappear.(I'm sure you wont):up: :up: :up: :up:


to add to my previous post, as iceatcs has already said use varying degrees of grey for varying degrees of transparencies. I.E. black is completely transparent and white is completely opaque so mid grey would be semi transparent ect etc.

Aviador
11-16-2005, 02:46 PM
Whatīs the difference between SIalpha, SIalphamask, and SIglass?

I tried using SIalpha and Sialphamask and the importer crash down, it works using SIglass without adding an alpha channel to my texture.

MaxInfinity
11-16-2005, 04:18 PM
sialphmask is used for either cutting holes in meshes using a black and white mask or for creating a texture with varying degrees of transparency I.E. pure white = totally opaque, pure black = totally transparent, and all the gray's inbetween the varying degees of transparency's

siglass is used for making a texture look like glass, it will of coarse be semi transparent as you would expect, you could use sialpha mask for glass if you wanted to make a single mesh window, you would make the mask white for the solid areas and a shade of gray for the glass. but you need a texture and a mask for sialpha whereas you only need a texture with siglass, and you cant use siglass to cut holes in meshes. just to point out sialph does'nt actuall cut holes in you object it just makes certain areas invisible.

as for sialpha I hav'nt tried it yet so I cant help.
hope this helps

Aviador
11-16-2005, 06:29 PM
Thank you max, ok i understand the differences.

So my problem now is ok you have your texture, but how to do the alpha channel? I mean i use photoshop for my textures but i just turn the texture in black scale? or i have to paint over my original texture wich parts will be white or black?

I would like to thanks you also for you 3D modelling and texturing tutorial in Max. It helped me a lot. I am spanish so to translate all that was said about the importar and the custom scenary creation was a hard task, but your tutorial was really clear.

Hereīs what Iīve done so far LOL [itīs a fly compared to all the sets that have already been realeased].

http://img495.imageshack.us/img495/3586/shot00009nd.th.png (http://img495.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot00009nd.png)

2005
11-16-2005, 06:37 PM
looks good, haven't had a chance to try all this yet though. i am following all the new ways to make custom objects, just no time to make anything useful. Maybe one day i'll actually release something :)

MaxInfinity
11-16-2005, 08:45 PM
Don't underestimate what you have done sofar Aviador, It looks pretty damn cool to me.

If you just want your windowpanes to be transparent, I would paint the glass a shade of gray, the darker the shade of gray you use the more seethrough your glass will be, and then paint everything else white, those parts will be totally opaque.
Please remember to do this with a copy of your texture and not the original, I know it sounds silly but Ive nearly overwritten my textures a couple of times. convert the mask to greyscale image.
then import as normal, using your original texture and the alpha mask in the alpha texture box, use sialphamask and bobs your uncle as they say.

marnetmar
11-16-2005, 09:24 PM
Very nice work on those wall pieces so far Aviador :up: :up: Once you get those windows fixed up it'll be even better. I really like those little "ledges" at the bottom of the windows, nice touch on that part.
It's hard to tell in the pic, is that a stucco type texture on the walls, or just a solid color? Just wondering lol Keep up the good work.

Aviador
11-17-2005, 06:19 AM
I will try that Max actually the windows use SIglass but alpha would be a lot of better.

I have a question not related with alpha but about Max: if you use booleans to do the window space how you convert the finall box with the holes to NURBS?

Is supposed to be stuco Marnetmar, it looks a lot better in 3D studio than in the game, but is the best i could do after playing with ambiental and specular in Max cause it looked very dark in the game. The "ledges" are not casual, i am working in a mediterranean theme to make a resort like in Port Aventura. The "ledges" use SIOpaqueglossreflection to make the porcelain more realistic. I will open a new thread when the project would be more advanced.

I also read something about designing shelves to make realistic shops, thatīs in my mind too but I will need help on that.

MaxInfinity
11-17-2005, 08:13 AM
you cant, once you boolean it coverts to a mesh, but it seems you only need to nurbs certain objects, for instance if you create a box using the box command and place it in rct3 for some reason the shadows are incorrect so use nurbs, as most pieces start off as a box, I normally convert the box to nurbs and then to a mesh, I then reshape the object how I want it. Although boolean works most of the time, it does sometimes screw up the texturing in rct3.
you dont need to boolean your windows use the sialphamask,
Here's the trick. create your wall piece with your window texture.
then create another mesh just big enough to cover all the glass in your window and texture it with either blue,yellow or magenta,
make it slightly thinner than your wall piece and place it inside your wall piece, use a black and white mask to cut out your windows using the sialphamask and use siglass on your other mesh. when its in rct3 the sialphamask will have cut out your windows, revealing the second mesh with the glass texture, and the glass will be recolorable. Alternatively, you could just create a white mask and use a shade of grey to paint the windowpanes, then you would'nt need the second mesh.

I think the nurbs thing has something to with the edges, as I said if you create a box object with box command the shadows are weird around the edges in rct3, but if you create a box using 6 planes its fine both objects will have the same 12 poly's/faces so its not the poly's/faces causing this. actually there's a cube operand as well I might try that when I get time.

if you look at the pieces in my gothic theme none of the pieces are booleaned, there all solid pieces with an alphamask attached.

Hope this helps

Aviador
11-17-2005, 08:31 AM
Yes, I saw your gothic walls and the arch [pretty cool] and read what you said about the arch modelling but thatīs to complicated man! I mean i can do it but itīs a lot of stuff that increase the time!!... I totally agree with you that Atari should help with custom scenary [their expansions packs would never be in danger], to work only with NURBS limits a lot the Max tools.

MaxInfinity
11-17-2005, 09:21 AM
Actually nurbs is 3d studio's most powerful feature, you couldn't make some of the more complicated models without it. the trouble is its very hard to learn, and to be honest you dont need it for any scenery people are likely to make for rct3, although saying that I did crate an animal pool with it which looks pretty good in rct3, it needs some tweaking buts its ok, i'll post a pic when I get 5mins. be aware though, you will be dealingt with a lot of poly's if you use nurbs for anything other than a very basic mesh, the pool I made occupys 6x6 squares and is 323 poly's, which isn't that bad, when you consider if you put a 12 poly wall in each of the squares it occupys you would need 36 walls x12 poly's, I'll let you do the math, but you can see my point.
But in general I would stay clear of nurbs for rct3, I only use it to iron out boxes.

Aviador
11-17-2005, 10:10 AM
Oh ok I understand what you said I thought I had to use NURBS for every mesh, I just need it for boxes.

I was starting to work with max when all the custom scenary stuff began, so I still have a lot to learn. Most of my designs in Max have been buildings exporting maps from Autocad, and i just used NURBS in a tutorial for designing a mouse.

MaxInfinity
11-17-2005, 11:21 AM
Keep it up Aviador, although max has a very steep learning curve, you can learn enough of max's features to create most scenery for rct3 in a week.

If you need any help along the way, just let me know. I'm no expert by any means, but I know enough to get by, and if I dont, I can normaly find a work around.
I'm actually spending more time helping others than doing my own stuff at the moment, but I'm quite happy to do that. If we can make it easier for peeps to make custom scenery, the more custom scenery we'll have to use in our parks, and that can only be good for rct3 and the community.

shyguy
11-22-2005, 01:39 AM
Help me Max!!!

Okay, what I am doing wrong?????:mad:

I want to create a pane of glass.


First, I create the glass texture. I use just a solid color. I used black once. I also tried grey. (And a picture of Donald Duck, to boot!)

Then, I created my alpha texure. I used a greyscale palette and and put stripes of varied shades of grey. One pure white (color index 255), one pure black (color index 0) and several greys going from dark to light. I wanted to see how transparent each stripe would come out.

I used SIAlpha Mask. The only part of the glass texture I see is where the pure white stripe is. The rest of the texture is invisible. No transparencies. Nothing!

Your transparent angels are beautiful! How did you do it????

MaxInfinity
11-23-2005, 11:08 AM
Thanx shyguy, I'm really busy at the mo so I won't be around for a little while.
But heres how I did the angels.

the wall itself has a black and white alphamask added to cut out the glass part. another mesh is added, 0.01 thinner than the wall and 0.01 narrower than the width, the angel pic is then added to the smaller mesh and imported as a siglass texture, when the 2 meshes appear in rct, the glass in the wall is cut away with the sialphmask, revealing the siglass textured mesh, giving the appearence you see.

hope this helps, let me know if you need any help and i'll do my best.

quote
Then, I created my alpha texure. I used a greyscale palette and and put stripes of varied shades of grey. One pure white (color index 255), one pure black (color index 0) and several greys going from dark to light. I wanted to see how transparent each stripe would come out.

did u save it as a 8bit greyscale.

shyguy
11-23-2005, 12:05 PM
So, you used the SIGlass texture to create the transparent effect? I've had trouble using SIGlass, as many objects behind the "glass" disappear. I'll play around with it some more.

DarkRidePerson
11-23-2005, 12:29 PM
I have a question that I was wondering about.

Ok, say you have a texture map (normal texture) with one half blue and the other side red. You map the texture so that one side of the wall is blue and the other side is red. then you create an alpha texture which masks the red side of the texture.

My question is, if I did this, does that mean that I would be able to see through one side of my wall, yet the other side would apear as a solid blue (or any color that I color my texture), kind of like a two way wall?

I was just wondering, because if I could do this, it means that that part of space mountain where you could see through the glass and look at the ride from the que, but the people inside the ride cannot see you would now be possible in rct3.

MaxInfinity
11-23-2005, 12:56 PM
yes, but you dont need to use alpha for this, when you create a plane in max, only one side is visible, to make both sides visible you would create 2 planes with opposing faces, so if you just create a plane and apply a texture, when you import into rct, only one side will be visible.

Shyguy, unfortunately some objects do not show up behind siglass like particle effects, train wheels etc.

DarkRidePerson
11-23-2005, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by MaxInfinity
yes, but you dont need to use alpha for this, when you create a plane in max, only one side is visible, to make both sides visible you would create 2 planes with opposing faces, so if you just create a plane and apply a texture, when you import into rct, only one side will be visible.

Shyguy, unfortunately some objects do not show up behind siglass like particle effects, train wheels etc.
oh, I never thought of that, thanks.

but say that I wanted to have an object with depth, like a wall, instead of a plane. Would I just delete the faces of one side?

Also, I would probably need to use alpha if I wanted the see through part of the wall to have a glass kind of texture...

MaxInfinity
11-23-2005, 01:47 PM
its very hard, the reason is, if you create a wall 0.2 thick, when you look at all the sides of your object, you can see them all, however if you made your viewpoint inside your wall, you would see nothing, because the faces of your object have only one side.

the best way probably to get your effect would be to create a frame, then create 2 planes facing opposite directions, texture 1 with siglass for the side people can see through and texture the other with siopaque for the side that you cant see through, make sure u use the plane create for the 2 opposing meshes, if you use box or something like that, you will see the other mesh through your glass, as these have faces showing front and back etc.

hope that makes sense
edit
Originally posted by DarkRidePerson


but say that I wanted to have an object with depth, like a wall, instead of a plane. Would I just delete the faces of one side?



you could do as you suggested, but dont delete the faces, detach them and import your object as 2 meshes, then texture the detached mesh as siglass and the rest as normal.