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View Full Version : [REL V1.0]X's - CFR Raw OVL XML Maker [NO Poll] -- April 27 2009 -- It's here!


X Enterprises
12-12-2008, 08:38 PM
:jumpclap::jumpclap:It's here!:jumpclap::jumpclap:

Download
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The download is on my website in the RCT3 section. The link is in my sig.



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Original Post
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I was just a little bored last night so I started on a utility to help in making the XML for the Raw OVL file. (The one with the ride settings and text and whatnot.) I was just wondering if any of you would find it useful?

Thanks,
X Enterprises

tycoon4life
12-13-2008, 12:56 AM
I would find it INSANELY useful! If you go on with the project, I will forever be in you debt :)

stu-2693
12-13-2008, 02:42 AM
it sounds a really good idea, however, one of the major things stopping there being thousands of poor quality rides is that it is actually difficult to make CFR's... makes it act a bit like a quality control measure, just something to think about anyway ;)

coinich
12-13-2008, 08:19 PM
Out of curiosity, what do you mean? I thought you already made an XML editor thingy.

Rct3Luke
12-14-2008, 08:20 AM
But that's for animation's I think, this will be for CFR's

sr3d
12-14-2008, 09:56 AM
Out of curiosity, what do you mean? I thought you already made an XML editor thingy.
CFR's use an entirely diff xml structure.

Would be a major, major help if you made the app X Enterprises, save alot of time, for the same quality rides.

Stu: I disagreee, I think it's the animations and splines that stop a lot of people.

Anubislive
12-14-2008, 01:05 PM
it sounds a really good idea, however, one of the major things stopping there being thousands of poor quality rides is that it is actually difficult to make CFR's... makes it act a bit like a quality control measure, just something to think about anyway ;)


I Try to understand you and all, but i don't get this comment...

Why would you care if there were thousands of poor quality CFR's? Just download/use them...but still give people a chance to make themselve a (perhaps crappy) ride.... and learn from that experience and get better...and maybe you'll finds some gems in between all that garbage... It has been like that with CS and it will work again with CFR's...


Anyways, Mr. X enterprise goodluck with developing your new XML tool, I wish i could help you but I wouldn't know how:haha:

X Enterprises
12-14-2008, 01:43 PM
stu-2693: I'm sorry, but I agree with you.

I will continue development on this project. However, it will only be released to persons who have released quality rides or persons on the verge of releasing a quality ride. Scratch that. (I've had a change of heart.:))

Thank you for your comments.

Expect updates in this thread.:D

MonorailBlue
12-14-2008, 02:27 PM
i'm going to have to disagree with that. If someone wants to try to make a ride, let them. There should not be a quality control

Vodhin
12-14-2008, 08:20 PM
I personally would like something like this, having the desire to play with making rides but not the time to catch up on the details. (I've been so far out of the loop I don't even know where to begin research).

If tons of low-quality rides start popping up, I say who cares? Don't like it, get rid of it. If stuff happens to people's games due to bad modeling, I still say: who cares? Delete what doesn't work.

I'm not trying to sound harsh- but the 1 great new ride in 10 lousy ones will be worth it, and the easier it is for folks to make new rides means the easier it will be for the next great modeler/ride maker to emerge in the community.

Quality Control of modeling isn't what is needed: each community member needs control over their own reactions-


help those asking for help
Ignore the "I'm-Going-To-Make-Suchandsuch" Thread starters
Cheer the good stuff, jeer the bad- and explain why one way or the other.


New tools and new stuff, regardless of quality, is really the only direction left for RCT3 (heck, I really can't think of and real rides remaining that need to be made for the game, but I know there can be new rides that haven't been thought of yet)...

Glsbnewt21
12-14-2008, 08:26 PM
I agree 100% with Vodhin. I don't expect to ever make a CFR, but I'd love to have more of them around to use. If they're poor quality, then they might not be used, but at least give us the choice. Also, Vodhin CFRs would be awesome.

X Enterprises
12-14-2008, 11:22 PM
I've had a change of heart. (See above.)


Anyway, here's an update.:D

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb63/xavier0794/dev01.gifhttp://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb63/xavier0794/dev02.gif

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb63/xavier0794/dev03.gifhttp://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb63/xavier0794/dev04.gif

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb63/xavier0794/dev05.gifhttp://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb63/xavier0794/dev06.gif
They are showing what I have so far with just the layout. The bottom section will house saving xml and saving & loading of projects. (That's right, PROJECTS!:D)

If there is anything I've missed so far, please tell me.

Thanks,
X Enterprises

tycoon4life
12-14-2008, 11:38 PM
Looks very nice (again!) Will you advanced topics eg. sounds?

X Enterprises
12-15-2008, 12:08 AM
^Thanks!:D Sounds don't go in the XML this makes. Sound is put into the animation XML. (If I'm not mistaken.)

tycoon4life
12-15-2008, 12:14 AM
No, the sound goes into this one, it sits inside the sid element. I've tried it and have successfully imported it.

stu-2693
12-15-2008, 02:56 AM
I Try to understand you and all, but i don't get this comment...

you shouldn't have to try to understand me :p

I personally would like something like this, having the desire to play with making rides but not the time to catch up on the details. (I've been so far out of the loop I don't even know where to begin research).
fair enough, but knowing you you could probably figure it out without a nice snazzy program :P

If tons of low-quality rides start popping up, I say who cares? Don't like it, get rid of it. If stuff happens to people's games due to bad modeling, I still say: who cares? Delete what doesn't work.
true.. very true, however it is not a case of having non-working rides i was thinking about at the time, it was an image of having rather a lot of threads saying "where can i find this ride, i have looked in the cs list and all i can find is 50 versions of the ride i want, I believe it is the version which doesn't look like an assortment of boxes" :haha: not like i care, i don't usually download stuff anyway, but me being strange was just considering all the other viewpoints :p i mean, its easy to say "i don't care" but i have seen people jump on peoples backs when things start to happen that maybe shouldn't have :D


I'm not trying to sound harsh what is this "harsh" you speak of? :p i agree, however i think it may be a while before you get the ratio 1:10 :D


help those asking for help - i usually do when i can, thankless task at times though lol
Ignore the "I'm-Going-To-Make-Suchandsuch" Thread starters - but you just said your supposed to help people, i mean,it may be one of those great modelers to emerge :p
Cheer the good stuff, jeer the bad- and explain why one way or the other. - define "good" and define "bad" ;)
i have nothing against this program by the way... really :)..., I'm simply raising points and stuff :up:
anything rather harsh in that? its still rather early for me to tell, no offence intended

wabigbear
12-15-2008, 09:07 AM
To be perfectly truthful, the concerns stu first brought up were the exact same ones that ran through my mind too. I see everyone else's points too, including Vodhin's wise words, but I think it's only fair to point out that stu's initial thought's were shared by others as well.

Good work so far X Enterprises!

Belgabor
12-15-2008, 11:00 AM
I tend to agree with stu as well, but on the other hand want things to be open to everyone (otherwise I would not have published the tutorial to everyone).

I think the basic problem is that people do not have the right tools to discern between good and bad scenery (or flatrides). In some cases it may be obvious (graphical glitches), but those are probably rare in finished sets. In many cases modelling errors are not obvious when you see the finished product (By modelling errors I mostly refer to using too many ploygons).
Talking about the "right tools", I'm not even sure such can be done. Knowing the polygon count may help, but even people using 3D programs (including me) often cannot readily tell whether a certain polygon count is too much for a certain object (especially if we do not have the raw object data), so how much help would that be to someone who just uses CS?


Now for something completely different =)

X Enterprises, please do not forget that one Style ovl can hold multipre flat rides. Also the system can be used to do normal scenery as well, so you might want to allow that.
maybe youe already taken that into account, but if not, it may be easier to add now than fix later =)

stu-2693
12-15-2008, 11:28 AM
mwhaha :devil: my plans to take over the world & people's minds are forming well :p

X Enterprises
12-15-2008, 06:45 PM
I know that maybe some quality control may be needed, but I would find that the hardest part of CFR development would be the whole animating and spline work. Stu's concerns had me thinking too, but I don't want to exclude anyone who may be the next big thing that comes to CS. You know?

I want to thank Vodhin for his wise words.:respect: (And everyone else for their comments.)



To Belgabor: I remember reading that it can hold more than one flat ride, but I'm afraid I'm little too lazy(for lack of a better word). I just would find it difficult to serialize/deserialize a List holding all of those. (I already have to with what there is now.) But maybe in a seperate program?*shrug*

Is there anything so far that might be wrong/incorrect?

Belgabor
12-16-2008, 09:58 AM
Is there anything so far that might be wrong/incorrect?

Nothing that immediately jumps to the eye =)

wabigbear
12-16-2008, 11:22 AM
mwhaha :devil: my plans to take over the world & people's minds are forming well :p


I am your zombie slave Master! :bulb:

errt
12-16-2008, 11:52 AM
I think the basic problem is that people do not have the right tools to discern between good and bad scenery (or flatrides). In some cases it may be obvious (graphical glitches), but those are probably rare in finished sets. In many cases modelling errors are not obvious when you see the finished product (By modelling errors I mostly refer to using too many ploygons).
Talking about the "right tools", I'm not even sure such can be done. Knowing the polygon count may help, but even people using 3D programs (including me) often cannot readily tell whether a certain polygon count is too much for a certain object (especially if we do not have the raw object data), so how much help would that be to someone who just uses CS?
I don't think that this can be done by a tool. You will need to have people look at the set or flatride and decide, whether it's "good" or "bad". The problem is that there are no indication for what is good or bad. To make a somewhat objective rating, you would have to at least define some points. Perhaps the polycount of an object multiplied with a defined approximated number it might be placed in a park (so e.g. 1 for a landmark and 100 for a trash can or something like that) could be one thing. But you will always need someone saying that a piece of CS or a flatride is realistic and/or useful in his eyes. Perhaps if we can find a new manager for the CS list (apet08 seems to be gone; he didn't even answer a mail I sent, so he might have no internet access at the moment) and get the database done so it can be generated dynamically, we should think of a rating like this and display it.

On topic, I have to say that I'm looking forward to the release of this program. It will make flat ride creation a lot easier. Only thing we need is an easy way to create splines without using Blender then ;)

X Enterprises
12-16-2008, 07:27 PM
Nothing that immediately jumps to the eye =)Thanks

<snip>
Only thing we need is an easy way to create splines without using Blender then ;)*wink* *wink*


I'll post an update tonight.:)


Edit:
Development Update

I've added a neat little feature:
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb63/xavier0794/dev07.gif
^An info "button."
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb63/xavier0794/dev08.gif
^It brings up this. (Just because I couldn't fit it on the form.) The one for the seating type isn't quite finished.

How do you like it?

CoasterSim.Fan
12-17-2008, 01:20 AM
Cool idea, I am sure people will find this help full. One of my ideas back a few months ago, when talking about the program to make animation xml, was to make a program that supported all the types of XML that the importer and ovl make uses.

Its been a crazy semester for me, but now classes are over.I think I am going to stile try and finish my ovl make program. If you run in to any problems you need help with fell free to ask me, I will try and help.

Belgabor
12-17-2008, 09:52 AM
Actually the only format that would need to be supported is the rawovl format. There's nothing in the others it can't do.

errt
12-17-2008, 10:21 AM
Got an idea for a simple way to get the loop spline done: It should be possible to create the loop spline automatically if the size of the ride is given. So you could just set how big the ride is and the program would add a node to every center of an outer tile with the control points lets say one meter back and forth (and diagonal for the corners)

Belgabor
12-17-2008, 10:31 AM
As a template yes, but not final. The loop spline needs nodes where other splines branch off.

errt
12-17-2008, 10:44 AM
You could start the other splines only at these points. Or you could generate nodes automatically when creating other splines.

Belgabor
12-17-2008, 01:11 PM
Agreed. But then you still need a method to create the others =)

errt
12-17-2008, 02:42 PM
Yes, that's what I'm thinking about most time. Would be easy if you had only one spline per seat and all seats were on the ground level. But that isn't possbile.

Belgabor
12-17-2008, 03:18 PM
It still wouldn't be easy, because you can't easily figure out (automatically) how that seat can be reached without walking through parts of the ride.

errt
12-17-2008, 04:35 PM
True. I'll have to think a bit more about this problem.

Vodhin
12-17-2008, 10:56 PM
Hmmm. after just sending a PM to belgabor about this, I wonder if there is a way that the nodes can be auto-generated based on 1- the size of the base, 2- dimensions of the ride model (Bounding box?) and 3- the positions of the peep effect points (and perhaps any rotations on those effect points indicating their "fronts")? There might be options in a drop down box to guide the algorythm to assume some basic layouts (circular, front facing, two sided, etc.)... just a thought...

X Enterprises
12-17-2008, 11:32 PM
Are you guys suggesting that I make a program for splines? If so, I'm not that good at math. I find it a little hard to wrap my head around interpolation.:bulb::p But I could try. *shrug*

errt
12-18-2008, 07:47 AM
Well, the creation of the spline is not really difficult math. You just have to choose the right positions for your nodes and control points.

Belgabor
12-18-2008, 10:18 AM
Well, it boils down to the issue of creating an ordered list of points in a sensible, user-friendly way. Everything else is just math =)

CoasterSim.Fan
12-20-2008, 12:23 AM
its a very interesting idea. I think I am going to pass on this, I have tried to work with spline data before and it just confuses me :hitting-self:

Splines are simple in the sense that the need a point and then have two control points, but the math for like finding a point on the curve and stuff just confuses me :confused:

Well at least the links I fount about them did, if any one has any good links about spline math I cant take another look at it.

Belgabor
12-22-2008, 09:50 AM
Well, what could be done is to use a given vectorization algorithm. The problem we are looking at is pretty similer to creating a vector drawing from a bitmap.

X Enterprises
01-17-2009, 03:04 AM
I know it's been a while, but here's an update.:D


I've finished the main interface and finished the saving/loading of projects code.
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb63/xavier0794/dev09.gif

All I have to do now is finish the XML building part.:)

Yay!:D


If anyone has anything to say, go right ahead.

RedOctoberRCT3
01-17-2009, 03:11 AM
mwhaha http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/images/smilies/addon%20smilies/devil.gif my plans to take over the world & people's minds are forming well :p


Can I be your evil butler?

(Drooling voice) Yesssssss massster, perhapsss master would like double scotch?

___________________________________________________________________________

Perhaps a little on target.....

What I would like is a n00b to Pro tutorial for making CTR. I know the tutorial tells you how to make a pre done car but it doesn't tell you how to make your own car.....

Hope I didn't drift too far off topic

X Enterprises
01-17-2009, 03:15 AM
^ This program is for CFR's not CTR's.

And besides, CTR's can't be that hard. Just try to make a test cube.

RedOctoberRCT3
01-17-2009, 03:23 AM
This program is for CFR's not CTR's

Ooops, sorry, get the f and t mixed up!


And besides, CTR's can't be that hard. Just try to make a test cube

Ahhhh, nope still cant do that! It is very hard espeacially when you have crappy tutorials that only Computer gizmos understand.... and it doesn't help that most of its in german.....

fechu
01-22-2009, 02:32 PM
Hey Ho.

A few minutes ago, errt sent my this link, becuase im talking with him in ICQ. I told him that I'm programming a tool, which writes the rawovl for you. And then he told me you are doing that.^^ I thought *****. ;-)

But I think there's no problem if I'm making a tool like yours. It doesn't look like yours. I saw yours first time a few minutes ago and i'm developing it since a few weeks. Here's a pic of mine, that you can be sure I won't copy your idea:

http://www.lupiupload.de/file.php?dat=v36LVFW.jpg
(At the moment only in german...)


mfg fechu

I hope you won't mind.:)

SPACEMTNMAN
01-24-2009, 02:50 PM
Ooh i had this idea in a thread before christmas but the guy who i was working on it with never got back to me on it. At the time i didnt know how to program interfaces and im glad someone has made this :) well done :)

Flap
01-25-2009, 04:09 PM
does there come an tutorial of this?

X Enterprises
04-27-2009, 07:36 PM
Flap: No. There is a flat ride tutorial though.



Anyway, I have BIG news!

It's here!:D:D

Here's a screeny:
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb63/xavier0794/dev10.png

Just finished it.

Expect a release tonight!:)

RCT3robin
04-27-2009, 08:22 PM
Sweeeet :), I might be able to make a CFR finally, Great work :up:

Thatonekid
04-27-2009, 08:52 PM
^come on, CFR's arent that hard, and the raw ovl is the easy part. Besides, this tool only helps arrange the information, actually writing it out isnt any harder, just more time consuming.

RCT3robin
04-28-2009, 05:43 AM
^come on, CFR's arent that hard, and the raw ovl is the easy part. Besides, this tool only helps arrange the information, actually writing it out isnt any harder, just more time consuming.

For me it is :haha:



And thanks X,For all your hard work on this one :up:.

Viscosity086
04-28-2009, 01:10 PM
I thought Robin was all knower of this stuff :P Now you can make a tutorial for the rest of us peasants? Please ole great one? lol Ahh I'm just jokin but if you find time would be nice...

RCT3robin
04-28-2009, 02:02 PM
Meh,normal scenery is easy,But when it gets to the scripting stuff :haha:,Ill see what i can do. First i have to learn these things myself.

SPACEMTNMAN
04-28-2009, 02:16 PM
Does anyone else have problems with this on vista?

KDFAN
05-07-2009, 12:49 PM
I can't get on your website

FOgplaya
05-10-2009, 03:04 PM
Your website URL is not working. The cfr raw maker, maby you can release it off Vodhins or file front becuase your site is broken :(

hey is there a tutorial?